sovay: (Default)
sovay ([personal profile] sovay) wrote2005-06-28 01:08 am

Hellenika

Greek text courtesy of [livejournal.com profile] nineweaving, who scanned it. (I am not sure whether it will display properly on a browser not configured for the font, but since it's Unicode, a quick trip to Perseus may help. If not, there's always the scanned PDF!) Bracketed text courtesy of Martin West's conjectures. Apologies for non-Greek punctuation in a few instances, because this is one hundred percent cut-and-paste, and there's bizarrely no such thing as a raised dot on Perseus. Translation courtesy of me.* Inaccuracies, the same.

ὔμμες πεδὰ Μοίσαν ἰ]οκ[ό]λπων κάλα δῶρα, παῖδες,
σπουδάσδετε καὶ τὰ]ν φιλάοιδον λιγύρον χελύνναν:

ἔμοι δ' ἄπαλον πρίν] ποτ' [ἔ]οντα χρόα γῆρας ἤδη
ἐπέλλαβε, λεῦκαι δ' ἐγ]ένοντο τρίχες ἐκ μελαίναν:

βάρυς δέ μ' ὀ [θ]ῦμος πεπόηται, γόνα δ' [ο]ὐ φέροισι,
τὰ δή ποτα λαίψηρ' ἔον ὄρχησθ' ἴσα νεβρίοισι.

τὰ <μὲν> στεναχίσδω θαμέως: ἀλλὰ τί κεν ποείην;
ἀγήραον ἄνθρωπον ἔοντ' οὐ δύνατον γένεσθαι.

καὶ γάρ π[ο]τα Τίθωνον ἔφαντο βροδόπαχυν αὔων
ἔρωι φ . . αθεισαν βάμεν' εἰς ἔσχατα γᾶς φέροισα[ν,

ἔοντα [κ]άλον καὶ νέον, ἀλλ' αὖτον ὔμως ἔμαρψε
χρόνωι πόλιον γῆρας, ἔχοντ' ἀθανάταν ἄκοιτιν.

About the violet-lapped** Muses' beautiful gifts, children,
and the clear music-loving tortoiseshell, be serious:

but my skin that once was tender, old age has already
seized, and my hair has gone white from dark:

and my heart has turned heavy, and my knees would not bear me,
that once were dancers light as fawns.

I sigh over these things often: but what can I do?
It's impossible for a person not to grow old.***

An example: they say that rose-armed Eos, [. . . . . .]
with desire, once carried Tithonos off to the ends of the earth,

young and beautiful as he was, but in time grey age
caught up with him, who had an immortal wife.


*Very literal, or such to the best of my abilities at the moment. Go read [livejournal.com profile] poliphilo for poetry.
**Or "violet-breasted," in the sense of bosom, since κόλπος can mean both; any hollow, any fold.
***More literally, "it's impossible for a person to be never-aging." As differentiated from "ageless"—what never grows, as it never dies; rather than someone who may reach maturity, but never old age, never decay. [livejournal.com profile] nineweaving has suggested "unwithering" for ἀγήραος, and I'll buy it.

[identity profile] nineweaving.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 05:37 am (UTC)(link)
"Violet-lapped" is evocative of generation, of mothering, of (to put it
delicately) secrets.

"Violet-breasted" is the Audubon Society.

Nine

[identity profile] kraada.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 05:39 am (UTC)(link)
The Greek-illiterate has a question: if κόλπος can mean "any fold" it seems that a particular set of "folds" in the . . . nether regions might be a more reasonable reading. After all, that is where children come from. And it's colored much closer to violet than breasts are (I suppose one could say the areolae are violet, though).

Just a thought. I have no idea if it's a viable one . . .

[identity profile] nineweaving.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 05:44 am (UTC)(link)
Is "violet" in Greek a color or a scent-word? I note that in Martin West's rather stilted version, it's "fragrant-bosomed."

Nine

[identity profile] kraada.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 05:47 am (UTC)(link)
Whoa. It strikes me as particularly odd that the same word can both be used for womb and grave. Considering how opposite they are . . . perhaps originally used as grave only as a matter of irony? Just seems really weird . . .

[identity profile] nineweaving.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 05:50 am (UTC)(link)
They're shy breeders, Lesser Muses; build untidy nests of paper; brood snappishly. They lay their eggs at odd seasons, and addle them; they hatch few or none.

Nine

[identity profile] nineweaving.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 05:52 am (UTC)(link)
Makes perfect sense to me. But I'm strange.

Nine

[identity profile] kraada.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 06:00 am (UTC)(link)
It seems like it would depend on how olfactory-centric the culture is, to me. Our culture seems more visual-centric. Probably because the smog and various related crap we dump in our air causes our noses to generally suck. But if someone was much more attuned to scent, I could see a scent being a very erotic "image" (after all, if you believe popular TV commercials, scent is the longest remembered of the senses . . . of course, I don't particularly buy that one).
There is also the option that both meanings are intended. After all, the greatest poet of all time playing on the fact that the word is both visual and olfactory doesn't seem like such a stretch . . .

[identity profile] kraada.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 06:02 am (UTC)(link)
However, any so lucky as to see a Lesser Muse should not attempt to capture it by any means. Attempting to do so can prove extremely hazardous to one's health.

[identity profile] nineweaving.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 06:08 am (UTC)(link)
Not irony at all, but an old old metaphor, so old that it's part of the language. Like Bede's swallow, we come out of darkness--from the place of mystery--and return to it. The earth is where seeds go.

To die in Elizabethan English is to come: "I will live in thy heart, die in thy lap, and be buried in thy eyes."

Nine

[identity profile] kraada.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 06:15 am (UTC)(link)
Now you've got me building a culture in my head with these sorts of views explicitly in their society (that birth and death are so much the same process that there's only one word for it, etc.). Of course, that would mean they had much the same reactions to births as they had to deaths . . .

[identity profile] nineweaving.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 06:17 am (UTC)(link)
I would guess that the flower and its scent and color are conjoined, in a constellation of meaning; as in English, a snow-white breast implies both dazzling fairness and chastity.

Nine

[identity profile] nineweaving.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 06:19 am (UTC)(link)
Not the same: enantiomers. Mirror images.

Nine

[identity profile] shewhomust.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 08:51 am (UTC)(link)
It strikes me as particularly odd that the same word can both be used for womb and grave. Considering how opposite they are . . .

"But the common form with necks was a proper figure, making our last bed like our first; nor much unlike the Urnes of our Nativity, while we lay in the nether part of the Earth, and inward vault of our Microcosme."

Thomas Browne, Urne Burial

I just came to say thank you for the translation: I have no Greek, and the literal translation didn't help me much -

and found this wonderful discussion.

*happy*

[identity profile] nineweaving.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 09:05 am (UTC)(link)
I love Thomas Browne.

Do you remember the passage on Crystal? "...wrought by the hand of its concretive spirit, the seeds of petrification and Gorgon within it self."

Nine

[identity profile] shewhomust.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 09:52 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, nice.

No, I don't know him as well as I'd like to - so it was a particular pleasure to skim through this morning and find the passage I wanted.

[identity profile] nancylebov.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 12:37 pm (UTC)(link)
I've seen Christian writing about death as a birth into a new life.
ext_27060: Sumer is icomen in; llude sing cucu! (Default)

[identity profile] rymenhild.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 12:52 pm (UTC)(link)
The metaphor lasts for a very long time, too. From an early fourteenth-century Anglo-Irish poem that goes back and forth between Middle English and Latin, here (http://www.ucc.ie/celt/published/E300000-001/text017.html):

Erth gette on erth gersom and gold,
Erth is thi moder, in erth is thi mold.
Erth uppon erth be thi soule hold.
Er erthe go to erthe, bild thi long bold!

Erth bilt castles
And erthe bilt toures.
Whan erth is on erthe
Blak beth the boures.

Humus querit plurima super humum bona,
Humus est mater tua, in qua sumas dona.
Anime sis famula super humum prona,
Domum dei perpetra munda cum corona
Ops turres edificat ac castra de petra
Quando fatum capiat penora sunt tetra.


Also, thank you both very much for posting the Sappho.

[identity profile] daegaer.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 01:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh thank you! That's lovely!

[identity profile] lunarennui.livejournal.com 2005-06-28 02:05 pm (UTC)(link)
ooo, brilliant. i like this far better than the translation i read in the times. this is far more like the mary barnard translations.

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