sovay: (PJ Harvey: crow)
sovay ([personal profile] sovay) wrote2018-01-16 09:59 pm

What the mothers did, I didn't know

I almost did not purchase the revised and expanded edition of E. Ann Kaplan's Women in Film Noir (1978/1998) despite the fact that at this point I have kind of a moral obligation to read it because I opened first to an essay about lesbianism in The Haunting (1963) that was full of Freud and then an essay about Double Indemnity (1944) that was also full of Freud and the prospect of having to fling around serious consideration of Oedipal drama and castration anxiety in order to continue writing about film noir made me think maybe I should just take up stamp collecting instead, but then I found Richard Dyer's "Postscript: Women and Queers in Film Noir" which begins "Gilda seems unusual among films noirs for having as its hero an ordinary guy who also has a homosexual relationship" and closes "I'm inclined to believe that most culture works to hold the line of sexual differentiation, but not film noir, or at any rate, not always definitely" and I decided the book was worth its used trade paperback price, because that I can get behind. Kaplan's "The Place of Women in Fritz Lang's The Blue Gardenia" also looks good; she reads it as genre-savvy meta on the normal roles of women in film noir, for which I will forgive some overstatement and some points of interpretation on which I flatly disagree. The book's appendix is extremely valuable: a list of "Films with a central involvement of women," broken down into "Films involving women writers (but not central female characters)," "Films involving women writers or producers, and central female characters," and "Films involving central female characters (but not women writers)." It's not complete—I've seen examples not listed in all three categories—but it means people have been paying attention to this question for at least the last twenty years and maybe the last forty and really the last thing the field needs is me writing about these movies, but I happen to enjoy it. Also I don't talk about Freud all the time, so there's that.
justice_turtle: Image of the TARDIS in a field on a sunny day (Default)

[personal profile] justice_turtle 2018-01-17 03:26 am (UTC)(link)
Not talking about Freud is a valuable addition to almost any field. ^_^
radiantfracture: Beadwork bunny head (Default)

[personal profile] radiantfracture 2018-01-17 03:50 am (UTC)(link)
Agree! Though I have a lingering attachment to Lacan that I can't defend. (Not so much the cinematic gaze as the symbolic order.)

Whatever else has been written, you have something to contribute based on your own perspective / analysis.

Your points of disagreement, to begin with, maybe? That's sometimes the tiny wisp that begins a massive endeavour -- like the small spiral that begins the yellow brick road...
radiantfracture: Beadwork bunny head (Default)

[personal profile] radiantfracture 2018-02-01 07:03 am (UTC)(link)
These are all very valid reasons. In a world of disappointing graduate programs, that program sounds extra awful.

I'm sorry that a thing that should (in some alternate reality) have been about intellectual joy (though I mean has it ever actually been that? probably not) was a catastrophic trauma. That's an awful way to be wounded.

Just -- being a sort of shadow academic -- I don't have better language for saying "I value this work you're doing, and I think a larger audience of knowledgeable people would value it and engage in interesting discourse with you about it."

So, you know, that. But I don't actually mean that I think you should want academia itself. You've found a cool model in Patreon.

{rf}
negothick: (Default)

[personal profile] negothick 2018-01-17 04:14 am (UTC)(link)
The Haunting is film noir? Other than being shot in black and white, I just don't see it--all Freudian considerations aside!
negothick: (Default)

[personal profile] negothick 2018-01-17 04:05 pm (UTC)(link)
Of course it's not film noir--nor is Rebecca or The Uninvited. But it's lucky that essay was published after Shirley Jackson died, or it would have killed her. In her final year, she called down curses (literally) on the author of a literary reference book who in a brief summary of Jackson's oeuvre, spent most of the words on an analysis of lesbianism, especially in The Haunting of Hill House. Jackson denied--but a Freudian would have loved the vehemence of her denial.
alexxkay: (Default)

[personal profile] alexxkay 2018-01-17 09:39 pm (UTC)(link)
And I still do not know that I am saying anything that was not already said.

Nothing is completely original. Very few things are redundant. Context matters, and that is ever-changing. Art is worth making.
alexxkay: (Default)

[personal profile] alexxkay 2018-01-18 01:29 am (UTC)(link)
Hypothetically, in the realm of Science, things of substance only need be discovered once. (Practically, of course, they must be verified more often.)

In the realm of Culture, a thing which has only been discovered once is almost by definition of little importance. It is the accumulation of many voices in concert that make -- and remake -- Culture.
gwynnega: (Leslie Howard mswyrr)

[personal profile] gwynnega 2018-01-17 04:38 am (UTC)(link)
The book sounds well worth the purchase, in spite of the Freudian stuff.

I enjoy your writing about these movies a lot!
thisbluespirit: (writing)

[personal profile] thisbluespirit 2018-01-17 10:02 am (UTC)(link)
I hope the other bits of the book are worth it, then!

people have been paying attention to this question for at least the last twenty years and maybe the last forty and really the last thing the field needs is me writing about these movies, but I happen to enjoy it. Also I don't talk about Freud all the time, so there's that.

Both excellent reasons! Besides which, you'll have your own take, which is generally fascinating and beautifully expressed, so you should indeed write about what you want to write about. And not talk about Freud all the time. (Unless you should want to.)
thisbluespirit: (margaret lockwood)

[personal profile] thisbluespirit 2018-01-17 09:10 pm (UTC)(link)
I am coping slightly with the fact that the last essay in the book is the sort of thing about non-fatale women in noir I was starting to think I might write,

There's nothing more galling than some damn person who swiped your idea years ago! ;-)
moon_custafer: sexy bookshop mnager Dorothy Malone (Acme Bookshop)

[personal profile] moon_custafer 2018-01-17 04:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Nothing is more dated than a discredited psychological theory. There are a few SFF stories that would way more enjoyable if they didn’t include a bit in which someone, desperately casting about for a Natural Explanation for Events, invokes brainwashing, mass hysteria*, or neurosis.

*Even if they bring it up so the narrative can later prove them wrong, I still have to go through the “seriously, you think it’s more likely that you and fifty other people simultaneously had the same hallucination?!**” reaction.

**Like, I’m willing to call shenanigans in cases where one person reports a thing, and later others, who demonstrably had the opportunity to read/hear the original report, claim it also happened to them, in suspiciously identical wording. Sorry, this is getting off-topic.
moon_custafer: sexy bookshop mnager Dorothy Malone (Acme Bookshop)

[personal profile] moon_custafer 2018-01-17 10:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I suspect part of my brain hears it as Bill Murray saying “cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria.”
Edited 2018-01-18 00:34 (UTC)