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You begin to interest me—vaguely
I am aware that David Thomson in his 2000 BFI guide to Howard Hawks' The Big Sleep (1946) is pointing out the absurdity of the male fantasy that all Bogart's Marlowe has to do is walk into a bookstore and the clerk pulls down the shades and takes her glasses off, but I cannot agree with his view of Dorothy Malone's character at the end of their afternoon's tryst: "She does nothing to protest, to ask what now, what next, what about me? What did this mean? She has behaved like a placid whore, an available young bitch. And Marlowe has sought no more." First of all, I think that's a funny thing to say about a pair of people who bond not just over off-the-cuff sexual availability but nonexistent rare editions and people-watching. Second, it never occurred to me to think that the scene was incomplete without Malone's clerk protesting or pining. What next is she closes up the Acme Book Shop and goes home to whatever closer-to-real world she lives in, beyond the half-screwball hall of mirrors that is the plot of The Big Sleep. What about her is she got the same afternoon's fantasy as Marlowe: a smart, sexy stranger, no strings attached. "Placid" is a peculiar adjective to apply to a girl who makes the first move. "Bitch" is even more opaque to me: in heat? Indiscriminate? I don't think Thomson is trying to say she takes her hair down for all the customers; I certainly don't think Hawks implies it. If anything the scene is a testament to the irresistible virility of Humphrey Bogart, which is itself framed a little like a joke: that roll of thunder when he introduces himself as "a private dick on a case" is just a bit too on the nose. He self-consciously sucks in his forty-five-year-old waistline when she describes Geiger as "fattish." And yet women all over this movie throw themselves at him, from both Sternwood sisters to the taxi driver who cracks a racy joke that makes Marlowe blink. Doylistically, is it like a repeating kaleidoscope of the Hawksian woman throughout the script? Sure. But then one of the characteristics of that archetype is that she is not a mere object, not disposable. The girl at the Acme Book Shop watches Marlowe walk away through the steamy afternoon, but I don't think she's seeing the man that got away. She got him and good and now life, with or without a Ben-Hur 1860 third edition with a duplicated line on page 116, goes on.
tl;dr I did not buy Thomson's BFI guide to The Big Sleep because I hit that analysis while I was flicking through it and I thought if he was that wrong about Dorothy Malone, God knows what he thinks about Elisha Cook Jr. or Lauren Bacall. To disclose all biases on the part of the viewer, my major complaint about the scene is that she takes off her glasses at all.
tl;dr I did not buy Thomson's BFI guide to The Big Sleep because I hit that analysis while I was flicking through it and I thought if he was that wrong about Dorothy Malone, God knows what he thinks about Elisha Cook Jr. or Lauren Bacall. To disclose all biases on the part of the viewer, my major complaint about the scene is that she takes off her glasses at all.
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He's a legendary film critic. I am now feeling extremely ambivalent about checking his other work out.
It basically assumes the only agency she could have in that scene is to cling to him, and her failure to do that makes her a whore.
Which is a very particular definition of agency, too. And a lot of assumptions.
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I agree with you about the glasses.
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It was amazing how fast I suddenly distrusted anything else he said about the film.
I agree with you about the glasses.
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And yet women all over this movie throw themselves at him, from both Sternwood sisters to the taxi driver who cracks a racy joke that makes Marlowe blink.
Andrew and I sometimes refer to this movie as "Bogart on the Planet of the Babes."
She’s also there for contrast with the dressed-to-kill, not-even-pretending-to-know-about-books Agnes in the previous scene. BTW, anyone else think Marlowe’s disguise (Hmm?) influenced Deckard’s nerdy, sleazy “Investigator for the Confidential Committee on Moral Abuses” in Blade Runner?
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Oh, my God, you're right.
Well, she looks wonderful in them.
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I do associate her with you.
(I just checked and Dorothy Malone is still alive! She was born in 1925; she and Sonia Darrin look like the only two surviving members of the cast, the indestructible bookshop girls. I'm delighted.)
Andrew and I sometimes refer to this movie as "Bogart on the Planet of the Babes."
It's ridiculous. And the script knows it's ridiculous. Marlowe knows it's ridiculous. I don't think anyone has ever hit on him in his life the way the female cast of The Big Sleep hits on him. I think that's one of the reasons I can't accept Thomson's reading, because it requires the idea of Marlowe as the complacently zipless love-'em-and-leave-'em type. He's got more of a sense of humor about himself than that.
BTW, anyone else think Marlowe’s disguise (Hmm?) influenced Deckard’s nerdy, sleazy “Investigator for the Confidential Committee on Moral Abuses” in Blade Runner?
Yes! All Deckard's missing is the hat with the brim pushed up.
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My interest in the book went sixty to zero in about a picosecond flat.
She was sparky and fun and banged a hot guy, then went home. What on earth is the matter with that?
Exactly!
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I thought Geiger's bookstore was the one retailing porn?
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You're right that it's a lending library, but it's definitely Geiger's.
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Blurgh. >_<
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You said it!
eff that noise, you know?
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That is significantly more eloquent commentary than David Thomson.
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Agreed. Though I also enjoy her detailed description of Geiger, simply because neither Marlowe nor the first-time audience is expecting it. "Affects a knowledge of antiques and hasn't any."
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It's one of my favorite scenes in the movie. It's one of many people's favorite scenes. I think they see the same things in her that you do. I don't know why David Thomson couldn't see them. If you're going to make the argument that she's a fantasy, then it must be acknowledged that the appeal is not only to—or from—the male point of view.
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Right on! I think she's absolutely appealing to women, in all kinds of ways! And yeah, maybe a fantasy, but like, the Humphrey Bogart character isn't??
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Exactly! A lot of people in movies are fantasies. That's one of the thing they're for!
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an available young bitch
W.T.F. He's the one supplicating her, asking for information -- then he begins to interest her ("vaguely," I love that), she subtly invites him, he's a little dim, then she INVITES him, and he's all Oooh yeah wouldn't want my bottle to get wet. (Heh.) The doffing of pince-nez and letting down of hair sorta annoys me, but it's such a tiny change in her appearance -- her hair's back, not all the way up -- even that's like a sly joke.
tl;dr She works in a nice bookstore, she bangs Humphrey Bogart, she goes on with life! YAY FEMINISM
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Seriously. She has that thing she does with her mouth, I don't even know how to describe it. She looks like she could eat him alive.
tl;dr She works in a nice bookstore, she bangs Humphrey Bogart, she goes on with life! YAY FEMINISM
THANK YOU YES AND ALSO AMEN.
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IDEFK about this film critic guy. I mean, if Bogart were laying one on her and pulling down the blinds and Overpowering her with His Mighty Passion, sure, it would suck. But she's so completely the one calling the shots it makes me wonder if film critic guy didn't go overboard in some weird need to make her have no agency.
(I am also thinking some slightly grim thoughts here about performative allyship. Hah.)
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Like, I'm not debating the existence of the male gaze. Book by Raymond Chandler, screenplay by William Faulkner, Leigh Brackett, and Jules Furthman, direction by Howard Hawks, Brackett is in the minority there and working within a particular tradition anyway. That's not at issue. But there is a difference between "the male gaze exists" and "NO FEMALE CHARACTER HAD AGENCY EVER UNTIL 2015."
(I am also thinking some slightly grim thoughts here about performative allyship. Hah.)
I'm going to need that unpacked.
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To go back to Whedon, it's like when Nat said "They sterilize you.
It's efficient. One less thing to worry about. The one thing that might matter more than a mission. Makes everything easier. Even killing. You still think you're the only monster on the team?" in AoU, and about half the audience went SAY FUCKING WHAT, and the other half was like "WTF are you pissed about? and Whedon had to clarify "She said she was a monster because she was an assassin. Being rendered infertile made her feel unnatural, made her feel cut off from the natural world. But it was her actions that defined her. Her murdery actions. That’s what 'monster' meant." And I'm willing to believe that's even what he thought he meant. But boy that was not the effect.
And I mean, Whedon bragged about that scene on the DVD commentary -- he said he thought he had unique insight into Natasha and it was one of the best things in the movie and he obviously felt proud of it. And he's still defending it. Obviously the backlash probably made him defensive, but it's pretty telling he apparently never once stopped to think "But what are all these women, whom I claim to admire and speak for, actually so pissed about?"
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There was actually a meme like that on Tumblr -- HA, I lit image Googled "Bucky can never have children monster" and HERE IT IS
original post: http://dellesayah.tumblr.com/post/118247057152/bucky-barnes-gets-picked-up-by-the-russians-his
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I know Thor was chosen for the other side of this conversation pointedly at random, but I can imagine his very nonplussed expression.
(Loki, of course, takes the opportunity to remind everyone that he got knocked up by a horse once and is way more of a monster than Bucky is ever going to be. Steve, from across the room: "LAUFEYJARSON, YOU'RE NOT HELPING.")
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HIS IMPREGNATOR? A HORSE
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Here; this is Bucky-related and has no pregnancy, horse-induced or otherwise.
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I wondered about that! She makes it work.
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Indeed.
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I'm glad I never bought any of Thompson's film books because that is one sexist mess of a comment to make about such an innocuous scene.
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Comments appear to be unequivocal that David Thomson has confused his ass with his elbow.
Obviously, when I think on it, it's kind of absurd that Bogart's Marlowe gets hit on by women left, right and center, but I find that scene, and that entire movie, utterly delightful.
It's a delightful movie! It shouldn't be possible to fuse film noir and screwball comedy and yet it works so perfectly. I'm not sure anyone's ever duplicated the effect. Absurdity and all.
I'm glad I never bought any of Thompson's film books because that is one sexist mess of a comment to make about such an innocuous scene.
This was my first experience of his film criticism. It may honestly have guaranteed that it will also be my last.
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It deserves its reputation.
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great fuckin movie, one of my favs.
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I guess it's valuable knowledge in that it will enable me to avoid more of Thomson's opinions, but, seriously.
great fuckin movie, one of my favs.
I think I may be due a rewatch.
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Yes. The 1945 cut is best viewed as an alternate version; I have not seen it myself, but I have the impression that it's really interesting to compare, but not the stone classic of the 1946 film. [edit] Roger Ebert's opinion.