The more we move ahead, the more we're stuck in rewind

[sovay]

I dreamed of Catullus' brother. Catullus 101 was the last thing I looked at before bed, although I have less and less faith that I will ever be able to render it into English that doesn't feel false or erasing; mostly I got the murky, amnesiac kind of nightmares where waking only leaves you feeling worse for having had them in your head, but all through them a dark young man in modern clothes—or stage-modern, like contemporary Shakespeare; Jarman's Marlowe—kept recurring, so that at first I identified him with Dante's Vergil before realizing he was another kind of literary shade. He never spoke; he hung around the edges of things, as if he were shy of being noticed, as if he were the one grieving. There were cold forests and institutional brick buildings and I wish I had tried to touch him, to see if he were a ghost in the classical fashion. He might have been my age. Catullus is supposed to have died when he was thirty, but it's not like we have proof either way. Jerome was wrong about his death-date. No one recorded his brother's. The dream didn't tell me his name.

Comments

[nineweaving.livejournal.com]

I am sorry you were haunted. Nightmares are better to read than experience.

I wonder how you'd film this dream? Cinema does sight and hearing; but you'd want a sixth sense, knowing: layer on translucent layer of Catullus, Shakespeare, Jarman, Marlowe, Dante, Virgil.

Nine

[sovay]

I am sorry you were haunted. Nightmares are better to read than experience.

He wasn't contributing to the nightmares; he was just there in them.

Cinema does sight and hearing; but you'd want a sixth sense, knowing: layer on translucent layer of Catullus, Shakespeare, Jarman, Marlowe, Dante, Virgil.

Peter Greenaway circa A TV Dante (1989).

[nineweaving.livejournal.com]

That was amazing (I saw it at HFA). What dreams can do that films (mostly) can't is interiority: déjà vu, premonition, memory. If they're really clever--films--they can make the viewer think, oh yes, I've been there. I remember that year. Dread is easier.

Nine

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

What is it about the poem that makes it hard to render into English without the translation being erasing? (I find this concept scary and compelling: a translation that erases the original somehow. Obscuring or misrepresenting is bad enough, but erasing...)

It must have been Catullus or his brother. Must have been.

[sovay]

What is it about the poem that makes it hard to render into English without the translation being erasing?

I don't want my voice to replace the poet's. Some of what Catullus writes for his dead brother is universal to the experience of grieving, or at least not uncommon: the anger, the desolation, the futility of addressing oneself to the dead who cannot answer back; and how we speak to them anyway, as we go through the rituals of mourning because they provide consolation or because they are the responsibilities of tradition or simply because what else is there to be done? But it is also his grief, not mine, and his words are exactly what they need to be. I can't supplant them with English. I can only try not to get in their way; and so far I don't feel I'm succeeding.

It must have been Catullus or his brother. Must have been.

I have never dreamed of Catullus. I have something I want to write him in Latin, but I haven't got it worked out yet.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

What you say about the uniqueness of each person's grief, and not wanting to get in the way of it, makes me feel both the terrible responsibility and difficulty of translation and also the--okay, I know, it's an old theme, but there's a reason why we come back to it--loneliness of the human condition.

Sometimes all we can do is walk beside someone, even when walking beside them is such an insufficient act.

I suppose a good translation will do that.

[nineweaving.livejournal.com]

Sometimes all we can do is walk beside someone...

Yes.

Not a translation but a parallel? Another line, in harmony? A shadow?

Nine

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Sovay, I saw the evocative title of what you were listening to, and so I went to hear it (I like Modest Mouse), and wow, the lyrics sure hit hard, and this video, the band's official one, I guess, is really something.

[sovay]

and wow, the lyrics sure hit hard, and this video, the band's official one, I guess, is really something.

The lyrics are probably some of the worst things I could have been putting into my head over the last few days, but I've been listening to the song nearly nonstop since I found it. Thank the Captain Ahab mixtape. I hadn't seen the video: finding a fallen crow man in a sunflower field.

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

Wow--I am bookmarking that mix; it looks amazing.

[strange-selkie.livejournal.com]

...Did you use my liver to hark to Catullus' brother? Is that what happened? Lord Jesus.

[sovay]

...Did you use my liver to hark to Catullus' brother?

No, it was the night before. I just dream like this.

[seishonagon.livejournal.com]

I understand the problem, with that particular poem. It makes me cry every time I read it, from the sorrow, the beauty, and the sheer perfection of it. At the same time, your translations of Catullus have always rung so true for me. I wouldn't trust most translators with this poem, but I think you'll be able to do it, even if maybe not just now.

It's one of the hardest poems to teach to high school students, in some ways, and in others it's one of the easiest. One of the more amazing experiences I've ever had was reading it with a small, close-knit class of upper level students, and we all just sat and cried together for a brief while afterward. Two of the students wrote me thank-you letters afterward, because apparently they'd had a lot going on in their lives and really needed a chance to grieve with others.

[sovay]

At the same time, your translations of Catullus have always rung so true for me. I wouldn't trust most translators with this poem, but I think you'll be able to do it, even if maybe not just now.

I hope so. Thank you.

Two of the students wrote me thank-you letters afterward, because apparently they'd had a lot going on in their lives and really needed a chance to grieve with others.

No one in my family has died, but I feel like I've been grieving for months; this may be why I can't imagine the poem in any other language right now.

[ap-aelfwine.livejournal.com]

Fascinating dream. I'm sorry for the nightmares, although I hope the company of Catullus' brother helped somewhat, or at least didn't add to them.

I hope you can find a way of rendering Catullus 101 that pleases you, or at least does not displease you. I'm certain it will be worth the reading.

[sovay]

I'm sorry for the nightmares, although I hope the company of Catullus' brother helped somewhat, or at least didn't add to them.

Maybe he'll give me a story.

Thanks.

[ap-aelfwine.livejournal.com]

Maybe he'll give me a story.

I hope he will. An he does, I'd like to read it.

Thanks.

You're welcome.