sovay: (Psholtii: in a bad mood)
sovay ([personal profile] sovay) wrote2019-06-06 03:27 pm

Once again the bullshit's here 'cause history moves in circles

Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg has a really good thread on the history of the Star of David and its two-thousand-year use as a Jewish symbol, not merely a symbol of the modern State of Israel.

The explanation is necessary because of the D.C. Dyke March, which yesterday I heard had followed the 2017 Chicago Dyke March in banning Jewish pride flags under the defense of anti-Zionism. Currently they seem to be stating that what they have really banned are "nationalist symbols," a category which appears to fold the Star of David at any more visible scale than a necklace automatically into "pro-Israel paraphernalia." Which is historically ignorant and logically inconsistent, especially since pride variants of the Palestinian flag are explicitly welcome on the grounds that its limited recognition as a nation-state means Palestine by definition cannot express nationalism, but neither of these factors matters if the point is to strain only the right kind of Jews into your march, not just the ones who might be, you know, dykes.

I find this situation upsetting and also sheerly exhausting. It is not a distraction; it's not smoke and mirrors if people are getting hurt; but it's the same almost inarticulate fury I feel at things that are wrong. They are fighting from false premises. People are tearing themselves apart over lines drawn around strawmen. I don't see the Christian cross being called out as a symbol of historical oppression unfit for representation in a radically inclusive queer space even though the track record of Christianity on queerness is just about as dreadful as its history of crusade and genocide across any number of nations, including the one we're all embedded in right now. "Nationalist" symbols only, which filters the overlap of iconography and identity to one ethnic group handily. Hence the necessity of Ruttenberg's thread. I wish it didn't feel like arguing with shifting goalposts, premised on quicksand.

I had a terrible night already. I couldn't fall asleep until it was light out; then I couldn't fall asleep because it was light out. When I finally did manage to achieve unconsciousness, I had nightmares about being caught up in some contemporary suppression of dissidents (I should be that important) and was woken within the hour by two phone calls, one of which was a wrong number from a man who didn't appear to understand how wrong numbers work. (Him: "Can I speak to Lauren?" Me: "There's no Lauren at this number." Him: "Okay, I'll call back.") I have too much work to do before the week is over and not enough time to think and I can't help but wonder if I were more plugged in to Boston Pride, would I be hearing the same kind of one-of-the-good-ones gatekeeping from the city I live in? I'm thinking of a line written last week by Keith Kahn-Harris, which shouldn't be a radical suggestion: "Anti-racism should not be a reward for being culturally interesting or politically sympathetic; it should require no justification." More and more I feel there are people for whom it will never be justified and while I worry less about them shooting up synagogues or burning down rabbis' homes, I worry very much that they will stand with folded hands and look sorry and do nothing, nothing at all.
muccamukk: Wanda walking away, surrounded by towering black trees, her red cloak bright. (Default)

[personal profile] muccamukk 2019-06-06 08:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh jeez. I hope they reverse the decision, but harm is already done. If anything, banning religious symbols generally makes more sense than nationalist ones. I bet the Christian cross or fish is a lot more triggery to queer people than any national sign could ever be. Given, you know, the whole ex-gay movement, etc. (And not intending to be on one side or another re the middle east, but a symbol can be nationalist even if a nation doesn't exist. Just ask Quebec.)
isis: (noodly appendage)

[personal profile] isis 2019-06-06 08:12 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't see the Christian cross being called out as a symbol of historical oppression unfit for representation in a radically inclusive queer space even though the track record of Christianity on queerness is just about as dreadful as its history of crusade and genocide across any number of nations, including the one we're all embedded in right now.

Yeah. Ugh. My issues about Judaism and Israel and Palestine are dark and full of murk, and I instinctively yell "NO!" and run away every time they are raised.

I hope you solve your sleep issues, which sound really awful.
selkie: (Default)

[personal profile] selkie 2019-06-06 08:35 pm (UTC)(link)
I am having a super angry fucking goddamn day.

gwynnega: (Leslie Howard mswyrr)

[personal profile] gwynnega 2019-06-06 08:51 pm (UTC)(link)
That is really upsetting and wrong. Also, I'm sorry you had such a bad night, sleep-wise.
cmcmck: (Default)

[personal profile] cmcmck 2019-06-06 08:55 pm (UTC)(link)
So some nationalist symbols aren't considered nationalist?

Interesting........

I wonder about how some of these types would think about the flag of one of my ancestral nations if they even knew what it was?



Sorry you aren't sleeping so well- dealing with hatred and haters can be so exhausting. :o(

Edited 2019-06-06 20:59 (UTC)
selkie: (Default)

[personal profile] selkie 2019-06-06 08:57 pm (UTC)(link)
selkie: (Default)

[personal profile] selkie 2019-06-06 09:11 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess that does make orthographic sense! <3
yhlee: Alto clef and whole note (middle C). (Default)

[personal profile] yhlee 2019-06-06 10:33 pm (UTC)(link)
*support support*
dramaticirony: (Default)

[personal profile] dramaticirony 2019-06-06 10:48 pm (UTC)(link)
That nations exist seperately from states is basically 101 poly sci, and the sort of thing that tends to get mentioned in the very first class or readings in an I/R 101 course. Because if you can't make that distinction, you can't begin to talk sensibly about the world.

Not that having a coherent way of understanding the world is likely to be important to people who prioritize getting to document that they hate the right things, even at a cost to others.
lauradi7dw: (Default)

[personal profile] lauradi7dw 2019-06-06 11:20 pm (UTC)(link)
Did you see this, in a comment to Rabbi Danya's thread?
https://www.washingtonblade.com/2019/06/06/we-dont-have-to-choose-between-dyke-and-jewish-identities/

It seems particularly odd to single out the Star of David as Israeli-specific on a day that we saw repeated images of it over USian graves in Normandy (mixed among all those crosses).
batdina: (orthodykes)

[personal profile] batdina 2019-06-06 11:26 pm (UTC)(link)
man, you'd think at least we could have Different fights this time every year.

sorry you're not sleeping. I'd say we insomniacs should meet up and use the time productively, but there's that whole 3k mile thing that gets in our way.
thawrecka: (Vampire Knight)

[personal profile] thawrecka 2019-06-07 12:03 am (UTC)(link)
I have nothing deep to say, but that really sucks.
moon_custafer: neon cat mask (healy)

[personal profile] moon_custafer 2019-06-07 12:34 am (UTC)(link)
Joining in agreement on the suckitude.
aurumcalendula: gold, blue, orange, and purple shapes on a black background (Default)

[personal profile] aurumcalendula 2019-06-07 12:39 am (UTC)(link)
Ugh, that sucks.

Page 1 of 3