You can leave it at the altar, it will make you out a liar

[sovay]

I hurt too much to sleep and the fever kept coming and going, so I read Courtney Milan's Unraveled (2011).

I am not sure I'm in the best place to read romance novels right now. I was upset at several points in this one by positive developments in the plot. That said: well-written PTSD, well-negotiated fantasy, questions of justice, reponsibility, and law that I think I last saw around Gaudy Night (1935) and Busman's Honeymoon (1937), emotional complexity also comparable to Sayers or Megan Whalen Turner, some extremely funny lines, and there are enough ways in which the central relationship reminded me of the most idtastic bits of Girl of the Port (1930) minus the racist douchecanoeing that I may feel oddly better about the movie. I actively like both of the protagonists, which is less unusual than it used to be, but enough still that I make a note of it. It is not the second sex scene's fault that I was distracted by wondering about the historical accuracy of its sexual terminology. (I think a lot of this book's diction is not especially 1843. I just went with it.) Richard Dalrymple is a disaster zone of a human being and I unsurprisingly love him. I suppose I should read the first two books in the set.

Comments

[selkie]

I'm beginning to think Milan could write a passably plausible diction for the era and that it's an editorial choice based somewhere in the depths of her publishing house's desire for popularity. Her research is certainly there.

Also you were supposed to sleep *through* the fever. There was a plan.

Love.

[sovay]

I'm beginning to think Milan could write a passably plausible diction for the era and that it's an editorial choice based somewhere in the depths of her publishing house's desire for popularity.

I'd love to see what it looked like if she did. She's good enough with the habits of mind that she gets some near-galloping anachronisms (in attitude, not action) through the text just by not identifying them with modern terms. It would be nice to see that worked out in the language itself.

Also you were supposed to sleep *through* the fever. There was a plan.

I fell asleep afterward! For nearly three hours!

[sartorias]

I've only tried one Milan historical, and the many historical errors in the first two pages made me put it back. I much prefer her contemporaries, where her wit and strong modern voice are pluses, not negatives.

[sovay]

I've only tried one Milan historical, and the many historical errors in the first two pages made me put it back.

Nothing that occurred in Unraveled struck me as historically implausible, except perhaps for the slightly wishful criminal-legal arrangements of the ending, but some of the ways in which people thought and talked about what they did kept flicking at me—I hadn't realized how accustomed I have become to narratives that match their setting with their language. I don't mean that Milan needed to write like Georgette Heyer, who had her own issues with historical accuracy, but a closer register than the one she chose would have smoothed a lot of small things for me. I know the past can sound startlingly modern, but it should never sound interchangeable. That said, I wasn't sure if I would like the novel and I surprisingly did. I am looking at others.

I much prefer her contemporaries, where her wit and strong modern voice are pluses, not negatives.

I tend not to be as interested in contemporary fiction as in historical, romance or no, but people have been recommending Trade Me and Hold Me, so I may give them a try. Data point registered!

[kate_nepveu]

I think I liked this one best of the series because spacetoasters are my favorite. (Reference: https://thefourthvine.dreamwidth.org/170414.html ) I won't say it's the best of her books, but a hazy memory thinks it's reasonably representative of the historicals?

[sovay]

I think I liked this one best of the series because spacetoasters are my favorite.

I had not previously encountered the concept of the spacetoaster, but Smite Turner is a sterling example. I do not expect to like the other two books as well, honestly, but I am curious.

What would you consider the best of her books? Previous recommendations have weighed heavily toward various of the Brothers Sinister and Trade Me.

[kate_nepveu]

I appear to have only usefully written up two books and two novellas of hers, of which I would say _The Heiress Effect_ by a mile: http://steelypips.org/weblog/tag/milan-courtney/

Of my sketchy notes that I kept on the theory that I might someday catch up on the booklog, I seem to have liked the books after that in the Brothers Sinister series quite well too.

_Trade Me_ is . . . it has one too many plot things, and I totally don't believe they're college students, and also it's alternating first-person POV where the prose is exactly the same between them? (I also don't like the sequel because the guy is just too much of a jerk for me.)

[sovay]

of which I would say _The Heiress Effect_ by a mile

You make it sound fantastic. Fortunately it seems to be in print.

[edit] It was fantastic. I did not find a print copy. I hate reading books off screens. I still have problems with the dialogue not sounding like its decade, but the prose took a level and so did the politics; also I appreciate liking all four romantic protagonists of a novel for a change. Now I think I'm going back to bed.

and also it's alternating first-person POV where the prose is exactly the same between them?

I think I can deal with that when I enjoy the prose style for itself (it has never bothered me when Patricia McKillip or Tanith Lee or Caitlín R. Kiernan narrators sound alike), but if it's primarily serving as a window on the characters, I understand the objection.

(I also don't like the sequel because the guy is just too much of a jerk for me.)

That makes sense to me.

[kate_nepveu]

aww, I'm so glad you liked it!

As for _Trade Me_, I would start a chapter and I would _not know who was narrating_ for several paragraphs (I just checked and the chapters do have headings, but my eye skips right over those), and as far as I'm concerned, internal monologues ought not sound that similar.

[sovay]

aww, I'm so glad you liked it!

I had a peculiar reaction to The Countess Conspiracy: I liked the setup, I liked Violet, I liked Sebastian, I would have done better with the science if Violet had not discovered chromosomes in 1867 (since in our history the Boveris and Walter Sutton didn't get around to it until 1902–03, and I had not realized until then that these books were not supposed to be taking place in our world), and I had a great deal of investment in Violet and Sebastian being incredibly good for one another's self-image and healing and none whatsoever in the two of them winding up together in bed, which is why I am not the audience for romance novels, because protagonists in this genre always have to. Oh, well.

[kate_nepveu]

Hah, I don't remember the science at all!

I suspect that the modern-day series is going to be doing unexpected genre things, in terms of worldbuilding, and I'm really not sure how that's going to go...

[sovay]

I suspect that the modern-day series is going to be doing unexpected genre things, in terms of worldbuilding, and I'm really not sure how that's going to go...

Is it near-future, or contemporary with slight divergences, or what?

[kate_nepveu]

Contemporary, but I think it might be heading in a speculative fiction direction, plot-wise. Or something. I honestly don't know and I'm not sure when we might find out.

[17catherines]

Milan has said that her contemporaries are science fiction, they just aren't being particularly noticeable about it yet. She didn't say when, but given that there is a behemoth of a book about Adam that she is writing in between and around all the others, and given the nature of his love interest, I think the science fiction aspects are going to become pretty evident in a couple of books' time.

Her historicals are definitely and consciously veering into alternate history - once the chromosome gets discovered earlier and in England, that's going to change the pace of technological change. So while she does meddle with history, she is fully aware of the consequences of doing so...

[sovay]

Milan has said that her contemporaries are science fiction, they just aren't being particularly noticeable about it yet.

Okay, that makes me want to read them. Go know.

Her historicals are definitely and consciously veering into alternate history - once the chromosome gets discovered earlier and in England, that's going to change the pace of technological change.

Are her historicals in continuity with her contemporaries, then, and the latter just looked like our present in the absence of obvious markers to the contrary?

So while she does meddle with history, she is fully aware of the consequences of doing so...

That's good to know. It was not possible to tell from Unraveled or The Countess Conspiracy that it was part of a pattern as opposed to a convenient infelicity.

Thank you!

[17catherines]

I don't believe so. She wrote a strange little crossover fic which you can find on her website, where Adam, from her Cyclone series travels back in time and meets Free, and the implication there is that there is a different timeline. This was originally intended to be out of continuity with both series, but I'm not sure it still is...

Certainly, Milan heavily implied in her afternote to Once Upon a Marquess that she was plotting some fairly drastic changes to the political timeline, and we already know that women got the vote in 1895 in Free's universe.

(PS: The fic is here: http://www.courtneymilan.com/adammeetsfree.php - but there really isn't much point reading it until you've met Adam, at least. Free, I understand you know a little already...)

[sovay]

This was originally intended to be out of continuity with both series, but I'm not sure it still is...

Does that mean that the Cyclone series is developing time travel?

[17catherines]

We have not yet been told this, but given the hints we've had at the identity of Adam's love interest, I suspect so. Not that time travel would be sufficient to solve all of those problems.

(Incidentally, there will definitely be some queer romances happening in the Cyclone series.)

[sovay]

(Incidentally, there will definitely be some queer romances happening in the Cyclone series.)

Good!

(I finished Unraveled wanting a book for Richard, but given Milan's own statements on the matter and the fact it's been six years now, I suspect that ship has sailed.)

[17catherines]

Oh! I've just realised she has written a queer historical - has anyone mentioned Hamilton's Battalion yet? This is a book containing three novellas with a loose framing story about Hamilton's widow trying to collect stories about his troops, and the three novellas are by Courtney Milan, Alyssa Cole, and Rose Lerner, respectively, which I think you will agree is convenient!

The Lerner story is the only hetero romance in the lot, with a Jewish couple, the female half of whom ran away to join the army dressed as a man, and it does some really interesting things with negotiating relationships and religion and patriotism.

The Milan story is a biracial romance between a Black former slave and a white Englishman who never shuts up. It contains some very alarming cheese (the food, not the style), and is ridiculously funny, but also packs an emotional punch where it needs to.

The Cole story didn't grab me, but was a lesbian romance with two black women as heroines.

So that's a nice variety pack of interesting authors doing interesting things for you.

[sovay]

I've just realised she has written a queer historical - has anyone mentioned Hamilton's Battalion yet?

Yes! It's been recommended; I haven't gotten around to tracking it down yet. (People have mentioned the cheese.)

Do you like Alyssa Cole generally?

[17catherines]

I haven't read any of Alyssa Cole's other work yet (though I have one of her novels on my Kobo), but she has been highly recommended by a lot of people.

The cheese is DELICIOUS.

[kate_nepveu]

Yeah, I am sure she knows, it's just... not what I expected. Which may be fine! Just have to see.

[kore]

That is an awesome post.

[kate_nepveu]

It's a thing I didn't know I needed a name for until I had it!

[gwynnega]

The Milan I've read is The Suffragette Scandal, which I enjoyed, though I was dubious about some of its historical aspects.

[sovay]

The Milan I've read is The Suffragette Scandal, which I enjoyed, though I was dubious about some of its historical aspects.

May I ask which ones? As described above, I didn't have a problem with the plausible historicity of Unraveled so much as the prose, which never totally threw me out of the story, but did make me keep noticing it.

[gwynnega]

I read the book a few years ago and can't remember specifics--just a "not quite right" feeling at times, although the characters were engaging enough that I managed to mostly shove that feeling to the back of my mind as I read. (And now I'm tempted to read the next book in the series, which has a black woman mathematician protagonist.)

[choco_frosh]

I hurt too much to sleep and the fever kept coming and going, so I read Courtney Milan's Unraveled (2011).

That sounds absolutely terrible. I'm really sorry. But I'm glad it was a good book?

[sovay]

That sounds absolutely terrible. I'm really sorry. But I'm glad it was a good book?

Thank you. I fell asleep eventually, from about eleven to two-thirty. The part where I read the book was a huge improvement on the part where I lay watching the sun come up!

really OT but

[kore]

DUDE

https://legionofhonor.famsf.org/exhibitions/gods-color-polychromy-ancient-world

DUUUUUUUUDE

Re: really OT but

[sovay]

DUUUUUUUUDE

I saw that exhibit when it came through the Harvard museums about nine years ago. It was great.

[17catherines]

I am SO glad you enjoyed Unravelled (and the other Milan books you have read so far)! I'm ridiculously fond of her writing, and basically spent the Australian Romance Readers' Convention going to every panel or talk she gave and trying not to look too much like a stalker, because she is just as engaging and intelligent in person as she is in her books.

[sovay]

I am SO glad you enjoyed Unravelled (and the other Milan books you have read so far)!

Thank you! I am pretty sure I am not the ideal romance reader, but I am enjoying reading these romances.

because she is just as engaging and intelligent in person as she is in her books.

I'm glad to hear it. I hadn't gone looking for her social media (and if she's primarily on Twitter, it will do me no good anyway) so I had little idea of what she was like as a person beyond her website. I suspect that if you looked like a stalker, so did the rest of the room.

[kore]

I think I am also getting the flu (despite having HAD a flu shot, augh) so I may check this out.

[sovay]

I think I am also getting the flu (despite having HAD a flu shot, augh) so I may check this out.

I hope you enjoy it, and feel better no matter what!