I think I know by now what evil really is

[sovay]

I am evidently not the target audience for Tim Powers' Hide Me Among the Graves (2012), which rushthatspeaks has been reading and describing to me; I think that if one of your central characters is vampire John Polidori, people should always be asking him if he got it from Lord Byron and he should be so tired of having to tell them ("Byron wasn't even a vampire, damn it!") no.

Comments

[movingfinger]

Powers' books are always curate's eggs for me. Parts of The Stress of Her Regard are outstandingly good, a lot of it isn't. I still love The Anubis Gates though, with the circular, literary plot.

[sovay]

Powers' books are always curate's eggs for me.

I loved The Drawing of the Dark (1979) and seem to have bounced off everything else of his I've ever tried, although I feel that I should check out On Stranger Tides (1987) for all the obvious reasons.

[starlady]

I have never liked Powers, whether it was "meh" or just "how far can I throw this object to express the degrees of my hatred."

And yes, Polidori should definitely be tired of having to explain that about Byron, because Byron refused to bang him.

[sovay]

I have never liked Powers, whether it was "meh" or just "how far can I throw this object to express the degrees of my hatred."

May I ask? I have a mostly indifferent history with his books, but it's never reached the point of shot put.

And yes, Polidori should definitely be tired of having to explain that about Byron, because Byron refused to bang him.

+1.

I am terribly reminded of Kate Beaton only, I guess, not.

[starlady]

I read The Anubis Gates long ago and was meh; I read On Stranger Tides in 2009 and found it loathsome. Not only did it elevate his typical sexism to a full-on Madonna/whore complex, it also added a healthy does of fatphobia to his usual mix of neologisms and bad research.

[kore]

Yeah, SAME. My reaction from "someone else could have done this so much better" to "OMG NO," typically. If it were a fic I'd be all "Well, it's nice the author is having a good time, but his literary history is wrong/twisted for his plot and this is basically an OC named Byron."

[thistleingrey]

I've liked parts of the Orange County ones, partly because I can see his love for a region that I've always held at arm's length (my best violin teacher lived near a setting that both he and Blaylock have used). I couldn't make headway in Graves, either, and wasn't over-fond of the one before it, though I've read (I think) all of the long-form work that precedes them. Sometimes paths diverge.

ETA Blaylock, less celebrated, writes OC better to my eye.

[sovay]

Blaylock, less celebrated, writes OC better to my eye.

I think the only Blaylock I have read is "Paper Dragons." What do you recommend?

[thistleingrey]

I like some of the stories in Thirteen Phantasms but cannot now remember which titles (which is me, not Blaylock). From longer ago, a cluster of three novels slides together somewhat--All the Bells on Earth, The Rainy Season, and Winter Tides--of which I think Bells is the most successful at what it attempts, which is sort of to out-Powers Powers (kitchen sink mode) at a smaller scale. :) Not perfect, but I remember it impressionistically as holding together surprisingly well. That's probably what I'd rec in long form. For me, the plots and characters of RS and WT are not the key thing, and they contain some eyerolly-or-worse factors, but their constructions of place as a major factor in their respective narratives are superb. And then there's The Last Coin, whose first chapter hits the right note in depicting "fictional" landscape/housing/retail features that are hard to believe in conjunction yet were real and true at the time, twenty-odd years ago--but I have read only the first chapter! Then it goes to Vegas, I think, in search of the Grail. Technically, Coin and Bells are 1 and 3 in a trilogy, but Bells may be read alone.

*shrugs* I haven't read his more recent work because it has coincided with a permanent drop in my could-be-reading time. Mostly, for better or worse, I wonder a little why Powers has enjoyed quite so much acclaim when his longtime friend and fellow PKD co-heir has not. I did find Declare fascinating, since I'm ignorant of the quibbles with history and representation that other readers have noted.

[kore]

I think I read Hide Me and liked it a lot better than Stress of her Regard, which should have been made for me but really wasn't. Or wait, it's not in my Librarything and the opening's not familiar? Maybe I didn't! ....well, maybe that's one good thing about having a shitty memory, so many things are always new.

[sovay]

Maybe I didn't! ....well, maybe that's one good thing about having a shitty memory, so many things are always new.

Well, if you turn out to like it—again or still—let me know! So far I don't actually want to read it, although I am enjoying the updates from rushthatspeaks.

What was wrong with The Stress of Her Regard?

[kore]

Nothing really I don't think -- I liked it a lot better than Anubis Gates, which Brian Aldiss tricked me into thinking it would be just my jam in Billion Year Spree. Then when I finally read it I was like BUT THIS IS SUPERNATURAL HORROR WITH DODGY EGYPTIAN PASTED-ON MYTH AND NOT ENOUGH LITERARY SHENANIGANS, probably being the only person to react that way, since everyone else I know loved it. Stress had more of the literary shenanigans I wanted, but was still not quite it. It's probably an unfair judgement because I'm very familiar with the period and onceuponatime wrote literary pastiche and "dead writers in the modern world" type fic about all the people, so.

I'm also not crazy about Powers's typical depiction of women, although I haven't read all or even most of what he's written, and his male narrators put me off. But again, that could be more me reading it and going "CHRISTINA WOULD NEVER," &c &c.

Actually the Graves book looks like something I'd get halfway through reading and then realize I had read before. :-/ I ditched goodreads and although I've been recording my reading since then, it hasn't been in detail, so it's hard to tell.

[sovay]

But again, that could be more me reading it and going "CHRISTINA WOULD NEVER," &c &c.

Yeah, but when you know enough about the literary/historical figures in question, that's a legitimate complaint! A recurring topic with rushthatspeaks is the dismaying fact that no one ever seems to write a fictional Swinburne as weird as the historical one. Personally I have incredibly high standards for fictional Alan Turing. I just don't tend to notice this sort of thing about a person until someone either writes them badly or the glossy shallow biopic comes out and I hit the roof.

[kore]

Yeah, I was talking about this with spiralsheep re Stoppard and Invention of Love -- which I really do like -- but seeing Housman say things to Jackson he wrote secretly was really weird. Byron worked better in Arcadia because he was always offstage, and part of the whole plot was trying to figure out what actually happened and how we construct legends about the past. But I love Housman and read a lot of his work, and biographies, and even have his collected classical papers (not that I can understand half of them, if that) and so that AEH is more like a weird OC construct. Which is what historical fiction is, anyway! and to be fair, a lot of what gets called history as well.

I'm just still stuck going CHRISTINA WOULD NEVER. Christina Rossetti of all people was a fairly powerful woman, especially for her timeframe.

[sovay]

but seeing Housman say things to Jackson he wrote secretly was really weird.

That's a dramatic device I am generally all right with: when I saw the broadcast of Alan Bennett's The Habit of Art in 2010, I recognized stray lines in Britten's dialogue and mostly found it interesting how they were repurposed (and then laughed at one of them because I recognized it from the original setting, which was fair, it was a laugh line, but I was the only person in the audience who did. See also: the stupid joke in Christopher Nolan's Insomnia). If it's done badly, though, I can see it landing like a sore thumb.

(I have read The Invention of Love, because I don't think you get to be a classicist without people handing you copies. It may still be my favorite Tom Stoppard. I admire Arcadia, but I might have to see a production to love it.)

I'm just still stuck going CHRISTINA WOULD NEVER. Christina Rossetti of all people was a fairly powerful woman, especially for her timeframe.

. . . What happens to her when written by Tim Powers?

[teenybuffalo.livejournal.com]

Hah, I was thinking something like this when I read it, only in my case I thought, "Finally Polidori gets to have a trait in his own right, instead of having that trait in comparison to Byron!" Admittedly that trait is being an undead creeper, but he takes what he can get.

[sovay]

Admittedly that trait is being an undead creeper, but he takes what he can get.

In a universe where Byron is not a vampire, fair enough!

[drwex]

Whether or not Byron was a vampire was already covered in a previous Powers novel, The Stress of Her Regard.

I shan't spoil, in case you or someone else here hasn't read it, but I rate this as one of the top three Powers novels I've read.

[sovay]

I shan't spoil, in case you or someone else here hasn't read it, but I rate this as one of the top three Powers novels I've read.

What are your other two? I have a highly mixed track record with him, but keep meaning to try On Stranger Tides (1987) just because of the sea.

[drwex]

Anubis Gates, which I love for its convoluted multi-threaded looping plot weirdness (*) and On Stranger Tides, which is WAY better than the near-awful Pirates of the Caribbean movie it inspired. I love OST for its depiction of magic which is very down-and-dirty, mud-and-spit-and-chicken-feathers and dialect. It was, when I first read it, a wonderful antidote to all the high-elven glass-and-glitter airy mystical magic that dominated fantasy at that time.

(*) I once was in a week-long writing workshop that had Powers as one of its teachers and he admitted over drinks one evening that the only way he was able to keep the plots of Anubis Gate straight was that he took a long piece of butcher paper and stretched it across the apartment, using it to trace the lines of each character and... again, I don't want to say more because spoilers.

[sovay]

and On Stranger Tides, which is WAY better than the near-awful Pirates of the Caribbean movie it inspired.

I would expect so, even without having seen the movie in question. Someday I will bother to see whether someone has excerpted the relevant mermaid scenes on YouTube and watch those; otherwise I will stick to the first movie and the mythological portions of its sequels.

the only way he was able to keep the plots of Anubis Gate straight was that he took a long piece of butcher paper and stretched it across the apartment, using it to trace the lines of each character and... again, I don't want to say more because spoilers.

I am genuinely pretty spoiler-indifferent.

[teenybuffalo.livejournal.com]

Holy cats I will give you my copy of On Stranger Tides if you haven't read it. It's one of my favorite books. I love the baddies, I love the use of magic, I love the classical references and the Vodou references which are unified by the characters.

One of the pirates is a skilled magic user, but he doesn't really think of himself as a sorcerer, even though he meddles with gods and spirits all the time. He is under the protection of "Mate Care-For" which is his folk etymology for "maitre carrefour," one of the aspects of Papa Legba.

There's the best possible use of zombies. There's a repugnant Nice Guy sorcerer who is also a tragic villain in his way. There is a puppet master. There is a journey to Erebus.

The Vodou is colonial/racist, both in the story and for the audience. It's a ton of fun in the world of the book, and Powers has put some care and research into it, but at the end of the day it's an entire book about white characters exploiting the Vodou pantheon for all they can get. That's the only downside I feel I should warn you about.

[sovay]

There's the best possible use of zombies. There's a repugnant Nice Guy sorcerer who is also a tragic villain in his way. There is a puppet master. There is a journey to Erebus.

That does make me curious.

It's a ton of fun in the world of the book, and Powers has put some care and research into it, but at the end of the day it's an entire book about white characters exploiting the Vodou pantheon for all they can get. That's the only downside I feel I should warn you about.

I consider myself warned. When I have a stable place to put books again—it should only take a few days—I will either hit up the library for a copy, or I would be honored to borrow yours!

[teenybuffalo.livejournal.com]

I have a copy just waiting to be lent out. Also, I should mention that the book does good ocean, but it does EXCELLENT tidal marsh/estuary. You can hear the mosquitos and smell the black muck at low tide. One more selling point as far as I'm concerned.

[sovay]

Also, I should mention that the book does good ocean, but it does EXCELLENT tidal marsh/estuary. You can hear the mosquitos and smell the black muck at low tide.

Prrrrrrrrt.

[handful-ofdust.livejournal.com]

Ha! I agree.

Both of those books annoyed the hell out of me, mainly because I found their ideas wonderful and everything else really...not wonderful. At all. Especially when compared to Declare, which remains my favourite Powers book thus far.

[sovay]

Both of those books annoyed the hell out of me, mainly because I found their ideas wonderful and everything else really...not wonderful. At all.

That is unfortunately the impression I am receiving from rushthatspeaks.

Especially when compared to Declare, which remains my favourite Powers book thus far.

What do you like about it? I had a very positive experience with The Drawing of the Dark (1979) despite not caring even remotely about beer, but have never really gotten into anything else of his.

[handful-ofdust.livejournal.com]

I was mainly impressed with his use of Kim Philby, his ability to write a Cold War Le Carre spy novel in which the spies are almost all magicians, and the tricksy mythology he's got that conflates angels with djinni, from which I stole/paraphrased the "where were you when I laid the foundations of Heaven and Earth?" part of the Terrible Seven's origin story. Stalin's successes at warding off invasion, for example, are credited to an intelligence that lives underneath the Kremlin and is being fed purged dissidents in return for her services, alternately called Zat al-Dawahi ("Mistress of Misfortunes") or Machikha Nash ("our stepmother").

[handful-ofdust.livejournal.com]

Steve really likes how Andrew and Elena, the main protags, between them dramatize the way their two political viewpoints were tearing the world apart at the time--Elena is passionately and sincerely committed to Soviet Communism, even in its worst excesses; she's the scariest kind of genuine idealist, sympathetic yet chilling in her ability to forgive Stalin's crimes as "necessary" to bring about a better world. And Andrew on the other hand is torn by doubt, more emotionally moved by Elena than his own cause, but his fear of the Great Game and the deceptions and pretenses you have to go through in order to keep up...the very horrors it requires convince him there's no way people would go through it unless they absolutely had to.

(Andrew's also a Catholic, so I guess he's more willing to accept evil but less willing to commit it, because the Heaven he believes in doesn't have to happen on earth for him to be happy with it. He's flexible in a way she's not, so he doesn't get quite as broken.)

Then again, there's also the sheer scope and weirdness of the djinni-angels. Powers is really good at making it clear that something is going on, invisible and terrifying, without ever having to directly depict it. He's the king of turning domestic details inside out.

[sovay]

Stalin's successes at warding off invasion, for example, are credited to an intelligence that lives underneath the Kremlin and is being fed purged dissidents in return for her services, alternately called Zat al-Dawahi ("Mistress of Misfortunes") or Machikha Nash ("our stepmother").

This sounds like a direct literary ancestor of Ian Tregillis' Milkweed trilogy.

[handful-ofdust.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, no, it TOTALLY is. That's one of the other reasons I like it so much.;)

I also very much admired the one with the body-hopping card game, set in Las Vegas, not least because Bugsy Siegel is a character...Last Call. I have a copy of Medusa's Web that I intend to read soon, too.