sovay: (Psholtii: in a bad mood)
sovay ([personal profile] sovay) wrote2016-01-21 02:54 am

Made of thin air, full of desire

I wish I had not been given a nickname in elementary school by people who meant it to hurt.1

[livejournal.com profile] gaudior had to listen to me talking about this the other day. It depended on a mispronunciation of my last name, which was one of the guaranteed sure-fire ways to upset me in childhood. I still don't like when it happens, nobody likes their name being mangled, but I no longer take it personally unless it is a visible act of malice, in which case I consider people who try this sort of stunt as adults hilarious. It's not like the pronunciation used by my father's family is in any way authentic to the original Welsh. But I lost my temper easily as a child. I think some of it may have been a form of social processing overload; certainly some of my other emotional reactions were not normative for my age group. I imagine the rest of it was the normal curve of learning not to fly off the handle when other people were whatever they were. Either way, it was apparently very funny for other children to watch. And I didn't like people messing around with my name. It didn't just feel mocking or belittling, it felt wrong. The concept of true names always made sense to me: the idea that to change the name is to change the thing itself. I noticed years ago that I don't share my Hebrew name widely, even though it would not be secret from anyone who ever saw my ketubah or heard me called to the bimah. I use the same name for all my social media, but I recognize it as a handle, not my actual name. I might turn my head if I heard it across a room; you could not enchant me with it. I do actually feel that my alternate male name would be mine if I wanted to use it, but its existence is strictly a feature of having been conceived at a point in history when there was no assumption of knowing a child's sex ahead of birth—my brother born four years later only ever had the one name, because my parents were told the genetics early on. My grandmother had a nickname for me which no one else has ever used. I answered to it; I understood it as affection. It was not derived from any of my names.

The easiest way to mispronounce my last name is to make it sound like a form of chewy candy or a pejorative term for the Welsh. Stick a first name on me that led naturally into that pronunciation and I blew a gasket. Otherwise I think I could have coped quite decently with being known as "Saltwater Taaffe."

1. Please note that this post is not a request for anyone to start using it seriously. I think about nicknames from time to time, because they interest me, and they were on my mind recently because of a character in Only Angels Have Wings (1939) whose proper name we never actually know, even though he's one of the film's quartet of main characters. So then I was thinking about the fact that the one nickname I attracted in elementary school was a deliberate effort to needle me and the one that really didn't stick in high school was similarly based around not letting me live something down and it would have been nice if it had worked out otherwise. I know there's a time-honored tradition of teasing tangled with affection, but I was not the right person for it. I console myself by thinking that I might have needed to be a character by Damon Runyon to make it work, anyway.
the_rck: (Default)

[personal profile] the_rck 2016-01-21 12:47 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm very worried that I will mangle my brother's girlfriend's name when I finally meet her. They've been together for at least a decade, and it's only been this year that he's been willing to have any of us meet her. I just have a feeling that, if I get her name wrong, it'll come across as me not wanting her around. My family is white, and she's black, and she's twenty years older than my brother (he's 39). Those are both things that could lead people to being nasty and unwelcoming, and I really, really don't want to be.

The spelling of the name isn't entirely intuitive to me in terms of knowing how it's pronounced, and I've only heard it once or twice. I worry that I'll settle on a pronunciation that's wrong and then not be able to get myself out of it (that happened with a girl in my daughter's class one year. I kept putting the emphasis on the wrong syllable of her name and then correcting myself.)
yhlee: Alto clef and whole note (middle C). (Andan blue rose (credit: <user name="tel)

[personal profile] yhlee 2016-01-21 01:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Is there any reason why "Hi, I want to make sure I don't mispronounce your name, can you help me say it right?" won't work, especially if you haven't met before?
davidgillon: A pair of crutches, hanging from coat hooks, reflected in a mirror (Default)

[personal profile] davidgillon 2016-01-21 01:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I suppose I'm fortunate that, given the amount of deliberate attempts to upset me at school, no one ever came up with a nickname that stuck. It wasn't until working life that that happened, and it was one that could very easily have gone the wrong way - Pod, shortened from Tripod, because I used crutches. I'm trying to think who came up with it, and it was either a friend who doesn't ever think beyond the instant, or a colleague whose personality was all sharp angles - it may well have been both. Fortunately I got used to it, because a significant subset of the people I know are still calling me Pod years after we all moved on from Evil Aerospace {/wry grimace}

I did, to my shame, once give a colleague an unpleasant nickname that stuck. He was being somewhat obnoxious, but it's not something I'm especially proud of.
the_rck: (Default)

[personal profile] the_rck 2016-01-21 02:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I plan to do that. I just worry because I have a history of not managing well even when people are patient. There was a girl named Sakura in my daughter's class, and the name is apparently pronounced differently than I'd been doing in my head for years of reading Naruto and other manga-- The emphasis is on the second syllable, and I keep putting it on the first.

Admittedly, this name I may have a better time with because I've literally never run into it before (Ahnighta). That means I don't have a headcanon pronunciation to trip me up.

This is more important than getting the name right with a ten year old who only sees me once a week for two minutes and who doesn't have any reason to care about me. This woman is effectively family, just family I've never met.
yhlee: Alto clef and whole note (middle C). (hxx Jedao 1x10^6)

[personal profile] yhlee 2016-01-21 04:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I guess I was lucky that by the time someone came up with a truly ridiculous nickname for me, it was a friend of mine in high school and I just rolled my eyes at him.

(YoonHaBomber.)
Edited (agh fixed typo) 2016-01-21 16:53 (UTC)
tam_nonlinear: (Default)

[personal profile] tam_nonlinear 2016-01-21 06:01 pm (UTC)(link)
There's a typo version of my first name that was used as a taunt when i was a kid. Sometimes, when I accidentally type it, I still frown at it before I delete it. Names are important.
yhlee: Jedao's motto: I'm your gun (hxx I'm your gun)

[personal profile] yhlee 2016-01-21 09:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I have to admit part of my not being upset about it is that I have to admire the ridiculous godawful cleverness of it. :p
yhlee: Alto clef and whole note (middle C). (Andan blue rose (credit: <user name="tel)

[personal profile] yhlee 2016-01-21 09:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Best wishes with that. Obviously I don't know her, but with any luck she will accept a good-faith effort. Various in-laws still mispronounce the dragon's given name and it's a Western name!
umadoshi: (kittens - Claudia - pensive)

[personal profile] umadoshi 2016-01-22 01:37 am (UTC)(link)
I wanted to write a longer comment, but apparently I'm still raw on the subject of names and nicknames and the ways kids are cruel, and it's not coming.
yhlee: Flight Rising Spiral dragon, black-red-gold (Flight Rising Jedao baby Spiral)

[personal profile] yhlee 2016-01-22 05:43 am (UTC)(link)
See email (I'm trying to keep the dragon's name off the web until she's older, although it may or may not be a lost cause).
davidgillon: A pair of crutches, hanging from coat hooks, reflected in a mirror (Default)

[personal profile] davidgillon 2016-01-22 08:06 pm (UTC)(link)
I have to say my first reaction to that is yikes.

Yeah, that could have been pretty nasty if I objected to it. It was a 90% male environment, and that only if you counted the admin staff, more like 95% male if you just counted the engineers, and humour could be a tad locker-room.

I realize this is not at all the point of your comment, but may I ask what field you're in?

Oh, no problem. My dad was a proper civil engineer, but I'm the software type. I spent the first few years of my career doing Head-Up Displays, mostly for US stuff, C-17 most directly, but a lot of support on various F-16 projects, then segued over to flight controls, Boeing 777 and the Eurofighter, and finished off with some time on the Panavia Tornado's weapon system. Haven't worked in a while due to disability issues (which is a large part of the reason I call them Evil Aerospace).

That sounds difficult. Do you still interact with him?

I don't think he ever realised I was the originator, but it all ended up in tears. Management thought he was a bit of a blue-eyed-boy (despite being a contractor not a permie), so made him 'first among equals' on our team. He told me to do something, I explained why it was impossible, he swore at me, I walked out. Management decided to resolve the issue by transferring me to flight controls and leaving him in charge (hmmm!!!). Six months later, that team got hit with redundancies, flight controls didn't, and all the contractors were first out of the door. Terrible shame, that ;)

'If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.' Sun Tzu
Edited 2016-01-22 20:16 (UTC)
davidgillon: A pair of crutches, hanging from coat hooks, reflected in a mirror (Default)

[personal profile] davidgillon 2016-01-22 08:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, almost inevitably people misspell my surname with two 'i's - a second one following the double-l. I know they don't mean anything by it, but....

[identity profile] swan-tower.livejournal.com 2016-01-21 10:05 am (UTC)(link)
I never had any nicknames at all -- not in the sense of a thing somebody would call me in place of my name; I consider endearments to be a separate category. My given name doesn't even lend itself to a diminutive form, and my family name is just 100% unmanageable. There were kids in school (as well as one P.E. coach) who mangled it as a form of mockery; that was pretty much indistinguishable from the normal state of affairs, and didn't bother me much.

I don't know whether the unusual nature of my legal moniker is the reason that names have always been a Thing for me in stories, to the point where I have to ration out my allotment of name tropiness (and then it sneaks into stories that weren't supposed to have any of that sort of thing anyway). Not just true names as a means of enchantment: names with obvious literal meaning (thank you, Elfquest); names with hidden symbolic meaning; characters changing their names because of major life events; characters having multiple names depending on who's speaking to them or where they are. If it's a name-related trope, I probably love it.

You could probably enchant me with "Marie Brennan." Sometimes things attach firmly enough that you can have more than one true name.

[identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com 2016-01-21 12:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I know there's a time-honored tradition of teasing tangled with affection, but I was not the right person for it.--I understand this.

"Saltwater Taaffe" is fun (or would be, from the right people)--you *are* a saltwater being--except that the mispronunciation of the surname just makes it frustrating. I hate mispronunciations! (I think because my first name, which I like, is often mispronounced.)

[identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com 2016-01-21 12:33 pm (UTC)(link)
I love all the name-things you mention. For me it reached as far back as my first reading of The Lord of the Rings, in fifth grade, and loving all of Strider/Aragorn/Estel/Elessar etc's names.

[personal profile] ron_newman 2016-01-21 01:45 pm (UTC)(link)
- The easiest way to mispronounce my last name is to make it sound like a form of chewy candy

which is exactly what I thought was the correct pronunciation of your name, when I first encountered it and had never heard you or anyone else say it aloud.

[identity profile] lauradi7.livejournal.com 2016-01-21 03:15 pm (UTC)(link)
In the 8th grade (1968) several members of my obstreperous class were given derogatory nicknames by THE SOCIAL STUDIES TEACHER (how inappropriate is that?), including one chatty friend whom she called Maggie Mae Motor-mouth. My friend cheerfully accepted it, and all of us called her Maggie from then through the end of high school. I saw her a couple of weeks ago, and when she called to confirm the time, she said "this is Mag." I don't know how the teacher came up with it - the Rod Stewart song Maggie May wasn't released until 1971.
drwex: (Default)

I feel this pain

[personal profile] drwex 2016-01-21 04:23 pm (UTC)(link)
My surname is quite unusual, easily mispronounced, and I've always been sensitive to the cloddish attempts to make it a humiliation.

[identity profile] ladymondegreen.livejournal.com 2016-01-21 08:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I've had so much resonance with post that I've been thinking about it all day. It pretty much ticks all the boxes for my personal "this is my name and these are the surrounding parameters" bingo.

x Childhood teasing around mangling and rhythmically repeating my last name making me absolutely furious. There's something about attacking a person's name that hurts like almost nothing else when we're kids. It's ironic really, because the implication was actually more about my gender than about my name. I'm kind-of interested in the fact that the other kids picked up on that when I was eight.
x Answering to a nickname from my grandfather and no one else, that had nothing to do with my given name.
x Using an online handle variously that isn't "me" but which I would probably answer to if it was said.
x Knowing the name my parents would have given me if I'd been genetically a boy and occasionally whipping my head around when that name is called.
x Having wanted a functional nickname, not just a shortening of my name because it was too difficult for summer camp counselors and etc.

Oddly, I think I have attached a lot more significance to middle names for various reasons, because my own name is just a single name and I have no secret Hebrew name. My name is just my name, Hebrew, English or French. Though I did have a French teacher who decided to give us all typical French names one year. I was Martine, which wasn't great, but at least everyone could pronounce and remember it.

Bingo!

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