sovay | Your incessant monologizing fills the castle with ennui

In terms of where you wouldn't want to end up, Seneca seems pretty clear, since you're just there to suffer and die, and shit, you can do that on your own time. OTOH, I've always wanted to perform in a version of The Lion in Winter, one of those few plays in which there literally are no bad parts.

In terms of where you wouldn't want to end up, Seneca seems pretty clear, since you're just there to suffer and die, and shit, you can do that on your own time.

You can achieve a kind of awful transcendence if you're Medea, but I bet you still have more fun if you just skip a couple of generations and go for The Revenger's Tragedy.

OTOH, I've always wanted to perform in a version of The Lion in Winter, one of those few plays in which there literally are no bad parts.

Anyone in particular you'd want to be?

I used to know all the scenes with RIchard and Eleanor pretty much by heart, so either of them, definitely. But I'm also a big fan of Geoffrey, Henry and Philip--hell, even John gets some pretty great lines. Aalis is definitely the most boring, but that's hardly her fault.

just skip a couple of generations and go for The Revenger's Tragedy.

Y'know, I think it was The Revenger's Tragedy that reminded my of how most of the characters in Seven Gothic Tales wish they could be characters in a play, or better yet a puppet play - it's weirdly soothing how *doomed* everyone is, like they're on a track ride that will kill them, but at least they'll never have to deal with boredom or uncertainty; so, yeah, I might be ok living in that one. Especially since my RL is Beckett's Happy Days.

Especially since my RL is Beckett's Happy Days.

That does not sound good.

Spouse has a lot of health issues. 'nuff said.

Is it wrong that I would genuinely want to be in {\it Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf}?

Is it wrong that I would genuinely want to be in {\it Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf}?

I'd love to see you in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?

Why that play?

My immediate thought was "Anybody but Mamet!"

Sooner Mamet than Beckett any day of the week.

I'd go for Wilde; given that I'm not actually John the Baptist, the odds of an awful end seem low, and the environment in the meanwhile would be congenial.

I'd go for Wilde; given that I'm not actually John the Baptist, the odds of an awful end seem low, and the environment in the meanwhile would be congenial.

Sparkling conversation and cucumber sandwiches. Good call.

My immediate thought was "Anybody but Mamet!"

That's fair. I liked State and Main (2000), but I would not want to live there.

Keep me the hell out of Beckett.

I'd take Pinter over Beckett.

---L.

Indeed.

I'd take Pinter over Beckett.

*snerk*ouch*

I think I used to live in a Pinter play!

I am so sorry.

---L.

I could probably also handle being in a Charles Busch play, if need be.

Also, just in case it isn't superfluous; no Sartre.

I could probably also handle being in a Charles Busch play, if need be.

I don't think I've ever seen a play by Charles Busch. Tell me about him?

Also, just in case it isn't superfluous; no Sartre.

Yeah. Just end up in the wrong conversation at a convention if you want to do No Exit.

Charles Busch... umm.

You know the way The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai is trying to be cool about being retro-Fifties scifi, and succeeded at the time, and watching it now has another unintentional layer of Eighties retro layered on top of that ? Such (admittedly limited) Busch as I have seen has a similar flavour of enthusiasm, filtered through a talent for dialogue reminiscent of Ed Wood, and has lesbian vampires in.

Such (admittedly limited) Busch as I have seen has a similar flavour of enthusiasm, filtered through a talent for dialogue reminiscent of Ed Wood, and has lesbian vampires in.

. . . I'm going to have to see this.

Do want: Corneille, Dumas (pere), Rostand. Because there is a moral compass, people's fates are not arbitrary, and things matter.

Do not want: anyone surrealist, Tennessee Williams, Elizabethan revenge tragedy (I don't actually need to cut my enemies' livers out or whatever), Lord Dunsany (much as I love reading him, his characters are mostly screwed).

Do want: Corneille, Dumas (pere), Rostand. Because there is a moral compass, people's fates are not arbitrary, and things matter.

I must admit that my favorite version of Cyrano de Bergerac is the one where the Roxane-figure gets to be furious with him for never trusting her enough to tell her of his love, but you do get beautiful language in the original.

Lord Dunsany (much as I love reading him, his characters are mostly screwed).

I've never read any of Dunsany's plays. (I may not even have been more than generally aware that he wrote plays.) What are they like, other than everyone mostly being screwed?

They tend to be based on a single conceit. Things happen because they are dramatic, and human effort is often futile before fate or the whims of the gods.

For example: a group of English scammers steal an idol's jeweled eye. It does not end well. A group of beggars trick the city into believing they are gods so as to live a life of luxury. It does not end well. Two dead burglars locked outside the gates of Heaven get the bright idea of breaking in. It does not end well and also there is EXISTENTIAL DESPAIR.

I rather like "King Argimenes and the Unknown Warrior," but it's not clear that the protagonist and his allies are morally or politically superior to the king he overthrows.

Oh! And I completely love "The Lost Silk Hat," which has a very different tone. A man has quarreled with his sweetheart, and he is going to go off and die in Africa or somewhere, except he has accidentally left his hat inside and he can neither go back in to get it nor be seen in the streets without a hat. He comes up with various ridiculous schemes to get the hat back, "helped" by a random poet, who wants the man to go off and die in Africa because it would be romantic. In the end, he reconciles with the girl, to the poet's utter disgust.

A man has quarreled with his sweetheart, and he is going to go off and die in Africa or somewhere, except he has accidentally left his hat inside and he can neither go back in to get it nor be seen in the streets without a hat. He comes up with various ridiculous schemes to get the hat back, "helped" by a random poet, who wants the man to go off and die in Africa because it would be romantic. In the end, he reconciles with the girl, to the poet's utter disgust.

I am faintly amazed this was never adapted for film, because—depending on when it was written—I can think of a raft of actors who it might have been made for.

I would love to watch that.

Because there is a moral compass, people's fates are not arbitrary, and things matter.

I think that being raised Irish Catholic puts me very much in sympathy with Ken MacLeod's comment that coming from the worldview he was raised in (one of the smaller Scots Calvinist-type churches, I cannot recall the specifics) H.P. Lovecraft is an immensely comforting author to discover, because an indifferent arbitrary universe containing nameless horrors is nicer than one with a moral compass that is out to get you; along which lines, George F. Walker goes on the list of people whose plays I would never want to be in under any circumstances.

When I say "people's fates are not arbitrary," I don't mean there's necessarily a higher power in charge; I mean that human choices and efforts make a difference.

I don't think I would care for the nameless horrors. Whether I would prefer an indifferent universe over one that's out to get me depends on my mood, I think. I'm reminded of a poem by Thomas Hardy where he says that he would prefer it if his misfortunes were the result of the gods hating him, because then he could hate them back, but that's not the case: "These purblind Doomsters had as readily strown / Blisses about my pilgrimage as pain."

I'd want to be in Goldman's The Lion in Winter. I love the characters in that play. Anyone except John, please, not that Alais has much interesting to say, but nothing bad happened to her in the historical record.

Also, did you know about http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319754/ ? With Rafe Spall -- Timothy Spall's son! -- as John? "Nobody'd piss on me to put the fire out!" I feel I must see this posthaste.

Anyone except John, please, not that Alais has much interesting to say, but nothing bad happened to her in the historical record.

This is two votes for The Lion in Winter. Maybe we should stage a reading at Readercon this year.

With Rafe Spall -- Timothy Spall's son! -- as John? "Nobody'd piss on me to put the fire out!" I feel I must see this posthaste.

I didn't realize anyone had ever filmed another version!

I just spent forty-five minutes under a truck getting a cat out of an engine block. Is there a play for that?

Is there a play for that?

Rube Goldberg.

It would be interesting, if uncomfortable, to be a character in one of Young Jean Lee's plays. I like interesting. Mostly.

It would be interesting, if uncomfortable, to be a character in one of Young Jean Lee's plays.

You have named someone I don't know! What happens to you if you're a character by Young Jean Lee?

Uneasy truths. http://www.youngjeanlee.org/about

Uneasy truths.

I will have to read some of her.

My life has often felt like a Craig Lucas play. I'm okay with it staying that way. And I wouldn't mind being in a Tony Kushner play.

Keep me the hell away from Pinter, Satre, and Beckett. Or Sarah Kane. I looked up a summary of her most famous play, and... uh...

WARNING! GROSS! TRIGGERY! SPOILERY!

Eventually, he crawls into the hole with the dead baby and eats it. The stage direction then reads that Ian dies. It starts raining, and Ian says "Shit".

I went to a Sarah Kane play and I thought, "You know, I don't need any assistance being depressed. I think I'll stay away from this one in the future."

My life has often felt like a Craig Lucas play. I'm okay with it staying that way.

Apparently I knew Craig Lucas' plays without knowing his name. Thank you for identifying that Prelude to a Kiss and The Light in the Piazza are the same guy!

And I wouldn't mind being in a Tony Kushner play.

Fair point.

WARNING! GROSS! TRIGGERY! SPOILERY!

I love Sarah Kane, actually, but I would not want to feature in any of her plays unless I could possibly guest-spot as one of the rats carrying Carl's feet away. (It's a great stage direction. I have no idea what anyone has ever done about staging it.)

If some kid wrote that for the Virginia Avenue Project, we'd use shadow puppets. It would be awesome.

we'd use shadow puppets. It would be awesome.

Dude.

I am kind of sorry I can't request you stage Cleansed now.

... who would you like to be a character in a play by?
Mamet, so long as I was the hero because Mamaet's heroes inevitably triumph over sordid situations in believable ways.

Whose plays would you absolutely not want to find yourself in?
Mamet. As a supporting character. Because they succumb to sordid situations in believable ways, and invariably end miserably

Mamet.

Okay, possibly you win this question.

If the prize is dinner with you, I accept.

(On a more serious note, you have found your way onto the acknowledgements page of the hardcopy edition of my novel, due for release shortly. I would be honored if you would allow me to forward you a copy.)

(On a more serious note, you have found your way onto the acknowledgements page of the hardcopy edition of my novel, due for release shortly. I would be honored if you would allow me to forward you a copy.)

I'm honored. I would love a copy. Thank you!

I don't know when I will next be in the Vancouver area, since the person I know best who currently lives there is moving in June, but I have this mad theory about attending World Fantasy in Toronto next year: if you can make it, we should totally hang out.

If you would care to send me an address to which I can mail a copy of ECHO, my personal e-mail address is: roadpoet@rock.com

I don't usually hit Cons (or fly much) due to a paucity of funds. However I will be in TO next year. When is the Con? My plans have me in town to visit and play with some jiu-jitsu friends. If things jibe time-wise, I can do both. And you can meet Danny and Ola, recent immigrants from Israel. (And try jiu-jitsu, too, if you're interested ...)

When is the Con?

First four days in November, apparently. I have eleven months to make myself able to afford it.

(And try jiu-jitsu, too, if you're interested ...)

I'd probably be terrible, just be warned.

I would not mind being in a Dodie Smith play.

Do musicals count?

I would not mind being in a Dodie Smith play.

I should read one. All I know of her work is I Capture the Castle and the Dalmatians novels.

Do musicals count?

Oh, sure! A matinée, a Pinter play, perhaps a piece of Mahler's . . .

I'd like to be in a play by Wilde or Shaw. I'd say Rostand because I love Cyrano, but it might be a drag to actually be Roxane.

I'd like to be in a play by Wilde or Shaw.

Okay, Shaw. His plays are full of mistaken people, but rarely stupid.

I'd say Rostand because I love Cyrano, but it might be a drag to actually be Roxane.

So, who would you rather be?

Hmm, would it be better to be Cyrano, who is awesome but dies anyway, or Roxane, who's the recipient of all that adoration, but winds up alone anyway? No wonder Steve Martin rewrote the ending!

Best meme in ages, longest comment ever.

Where I would want to wind up: as a character from Gilbert and Sullivan. Opera must be an option here, because G&S is the only place I would choose to live outside reality. (Do I have to name a character who already exists, or would I be a new character?) Lots of things I care about are SRS BZNZ there (tea, baked goods, ghosts, TRU LUV, piracy, complicated codes of honor, fairyland, poetry). Everybody but me is funny without knowing it or else has a nice delicate sense of humor and irony. Of course, nothing about me would be funny in any way. And all the subjects of satire are handled gently enough to be funny without demolishing them. Also, unless you're Mr. Wells or Bunthorne, you usually wind up falling in love with someone before the end. Really, I want to rent the Dower House at Castle Bunthorne and move in.

There is one Eugene O'Neill play I wouldn't mind being in: Ah, Wilderness! It's like you took Long Day's Journey Into Night and played it all for laughs. Also, Mother isn't an addict anymore, the men of the house aren't drunkards, and the Edmund-equivalent character is a tender-hearted teenage poet whose favorite poem is "The Ballad of Reading Gaol" (he pronounces it as in "goalpost"). He quarrels with his girlfriend, his family don't understand him, he unsuccessfully tries to pick up a hooker, he gets beaten up in a bar, and he eventually makes it up with his girlfriend and his family. A Day In The Life Of Nebbishy Poet Lad.

Tons of writers I wouldn't want to be written by. Let me think of one with particular applicability to me. Ah! I have it! I wouldn't want to be a character in Love Suicide at Amijima, a (nineteenth-century?) Japanese play whose background I've never Googled because it annoys me too much. It's about exactly what it says on the wrapper: two lovers Can Never Be Together because he's already married and she's of a different social class than he. So they go off and kill themselves in order to be reborn together. Or possibly just be together in the afterlife--I'm not clear on the beliefs involved.

I hate this ending very, very much. When it was first written there was apparently a fad for plays about love-suicides--and a fad for real love-suicides, as well. Kind of like the German emo boys who killed themselves in imitation of Werther. The reason it still makes me angry--and it's been years--was that the play was beautifully written and full of melodrama. It's a good play if you disregard the message; I was really into it.

And I went along even with the hero's stabbing the heroine and then hanging himself, and then said WAIT STOP WHAT NOT OK and felt like rushing through the fourth wall and slapping some sense into the characters. "Hey lady! Find a dude who wants you in THIS life! Hey dude! Go home to your wife, idiot!"

Opera must be an option here, because G&S is the only place I would choose to live outside reality.

Opera and musicals are fair game; they're theater. I should probably have put up another n.b. to that effect.

(Do I have to name a character who already exists, or would I be a new character?)

Dude, whichever. You could be a character in an operetta G & S never got around to writing, but totally should have.

Lots of things I care about are SRS BZNZ there (tea, baked goods, ghosts, TRU LUV, piracy, complicated codes of honor, fairyland, poetry).

Maybe you should just make this a post.

Also, unless you're Mr. Wells or Bunthorne, you usually wind up falling in love with someone before the end.

You could be one of the couples of sheer awesome à la Lady Sophy/King Paramount or Mad Margaret/Despard.

Really, I want to rent the Dower House at Castle Bunthorne and move in.

Or you could do that.

and the Edmund-equivalent character is a tender-hearted teenage poet whose favorite poem is "The Ballad of Reading Gaol" (he pronounces it as in "goalpost"). He quarrels with his girlfriend, his family don't understand him, he unsuccessfully tries to pick up a hooker, he gets beaten up in a bar, and he eventually makes it up with his girlfriend and his family. A Day In The Life Of Nebbishy Poet Lad.

That's awesome. I have no idea how I failed to hear of this play.

And I went along even with the hero's stabbing the heroine and then hanging himself, and then said WAIT STOP WHAT NOT OK and felt like rushing through the fourth wall and slapping some sense into the characters. "Hey lady! Find a dude who wants you in THIS life! Hey dude! Go home to your wife, idiot!"

I have had that reaction to narratives. Several people here have mentioned Cyrano de Bergerac, which I imprinted on very hard in high school; that has never stopped me from wanting to shake Cyrano and tell him to knock off being so in love with the image of his own unlovability and talk to Roxane already, for God's sake.

[edit]

Feel free to ~~perpetrate~~ perpetuate this meme on your own journal!

You could be one of the couples of sheer awesome à la Lady Sophy/King Paramount or Mad Margaret/Despard.

Awww! It's my secret ambition to one day be Mad Margaret/Despard with somebody. (Not sure whether I'd be Despard or Margaret, character-wise.)

I believe I will have a go at this meme myself, and I hope you'll join in.

I would join the request to be a G&S character, except I have a sneaking suspicion I already am.

Do you sing choruses in public?

I do, in fact. (That's mad enough, I think!)

It's interesting to reflect that I can hardly think of any play I'd like to be a character in. Maybe it's just that my brain's fried from trying and failing to write a proposal for a paper for a conference on the short story in Irish-language literature, but right now it seems as if every play I can think of is one that doesn't have much in the way of happy ending.

There's bound to be something else. Maybe a Wilde play wouldn't be too bad, although there's not much place for folk like me. O'Keefe's The Poor Soldier is full of buffoons, other than the hero and the virtuous captain who arranges for his rival in love to be commissioned because he realises the woman truly loves the man and that's the only way her guardian will permit the match; that said, the songs are nice, and I'd like to see a production, although I question how and where one could find singers capable of doing it justice, cos it's too Irish to be turned to opera or Broadway but most traditional singers haven't the volume for musical theatre. Might be all right to be in a Molière play, depending which one it was--I could probably cheat the Bourgeois Gentilhomme out of a few sous for lessons in something or other, and have a bit of fun doing it.

I'll try to put some more thought into it later tonight, because this really is an interesting meme.

Any road, I hope you can find some sleep soon.

Might be all right to be in a Molière play, depending which one it was--I could probably cheat the Bourgeois Gentilhomme out of a few sous for lessons in something or other, and have a bit of fun doing it.

Heh. Commedia dell' arte?

Commedia dell' arte?

I was thinking more in terms of being one of the blokes at the beginning of the play who's teaching M. Jourdain fencing or music or something--maybe the one who reveals to him that he's been speaking prose all his life, rather than one of the commedia stock-type characters like Cléonte or Covielle (or, God forbid, M. Jourdain himself).

But sure, I could probably deal with outright commedia dell' arte, although I'd rather not be one of the zanni and I really don't think I could be convincing as a vecchio. As I think about it, the inamorati usually win in the end, so maybe being an inamorate would be a nice change from the usual way of things in my life.

I've not read enough other Molière, as I think on it--Le Bourgeois Gentilhomme was the one decent book from high school French. I should read more of him, sometime, or even see if I can find a video of a French production somewhere.

I think I'd be ok living in Under the Gaslight (Augustin Daly, 1867). It contains what may be the original villain-ties-someone-to-the-train-tracks scene, except it's the heroine who does the rescuing, after hacking her way out of a locked storage shed with an axe. I wouldn't want to be Laura, the heroine, though, because kickass as she is, she still marries Ray, the utter twit of a nominal-hero. However, there's a street-urchin named Peachblossom who, now or later (I can't tell if she's supposed to be a child or a teenager from the script), will probably end up with Joe Snorky, the one-armed Civil War vet who is *way* cooler than Ray. So, yeah, it's the melodrama for me.

I think I'd be ok living in Under the Gaslight (Augustin Daly, 1867).

I have never heard of this play at all! Except for the utter twit hero (a problem that plagues drama to this day), it sounds awesome.

"Peachblossom and Joe Snorky" is a webcomic I would read.

I did a course years ago on 19th century drama - the prof was apparently forced to include some Shaw, etc, but mostly it was plays no one's heard of, several of which were terrific (John Galsworthy's Justice, frex).

I think the majority of them had fascinating heroines, annoying heroes, and comic characters who were the real heroes (and who were usually the best-paid members of the company, apparently).

(Oh - the script to Under the Gaslight is online here. (http://www.archive.org/stream/underthegaslight00dalyrich/underthegaslight00dalyrich_djvu.txt))

I'm already in Cold Comfort Farm (do filmscripts count?), and I want out. I would rather be in My Fair Lady, as a Pickering or Mrs. Pearce. Sadly, Gilbert & Sullivan's roles for older women are unfunny from the inside. The Wicked Witch of the West would be tremendous fun, right up until some chit threw a bucket of water at me.

Oh, I know. I could be a rude mechanical.

Nine

Sadly, Gilbert & Sullivan's roles for older women are unfunny from the inside.

Hey, Lady Sophy rocks.

Oh, I know. I could be a rude mechanical.

How do you feel about Shaw?

Hey, Lady Sophy rocks.

Her, I could live with.

How do you feel about Shaw?

Either Shaw and I would end up breaking the fourth wall for an impassioned rant, followed by nut cutlets. An enjoyable evening, if strenuous.

Nine

Either Shaw and I would end up breaking the fourth wall for an impassioned rant, followed by nut cutlets.

For a moment I failed to register that as a reference to vegetarianism and blinked very hard.

Yes, a Pickering or a wise confidante or join Margaret in a splendid holiday in a complete vacuum.

I'd like to be a dear little fairy that lives in a buttercup.

David Ives. Except Variations on the Death of Trotsky, for obvious reasons.

Except Variations on the Death of Trotsky, for obvious reasons.

That could hurt.

(Philip Glass Buys a Loaf of Bread!)

Oh. I'd choose to be in a David Rudkin play, though I only know his television work. (Penda's Fen and Artemis 81.) They're full of shifting layers and visions; they discuss everything from Elgar to British paganism; plus, they're queer-themed and rooted in the Midlands.

As to who I'd avoid? Much as I revere his prose, poetry and art, Mervyn Peake. Partly because The Wit to Woo seemed to undo him. Partly because I don't rate his plays that highly (although the adaptation of Mr Pye is lovely). Truthfully, I don't think anyone's staged them in years; I read them in Peake's Progress.

I'm ambivalent about Beckett. John Hurt in Krapp's Last Tape, though: yes.

I'd choose to be in a David Rudkin play, though I only know his television work. (Penda's Fen and Artemis 81.)

You've seen Penda's Fen! I've been trying to get hold of that for years; it's always sounded amazing. I've never heard of Artemis 81.

(I see Rudkin is also responsible for the dramatization of The Master and Margarita that cast Matt Smith as Korovyev/Fagott. I have no idea about the rest of the production, but I've always thought he would have been perfect in that role.)

Truthfully, I don't think anyone's staged them in years; I read them in Peake's Progress.

This past year, I kept hearing about productions as part of his centenary, but i never saw any of them; I wasn't in the right country.

I'm ambivalent about Beckett. John Hurt in Krapp's Last Tape, though: yes.

I should see that.

It's criminal that Penda's never been released on disc. We saw it screened at a film/gig night last year and walked away awed. Eventually, Martin managed to download the 80s screening from some obscure site (I'd tell you where if we could remember) and burn off a somewhat shonky copy.

Artemis 81 you CAN find on DVD, however. It leans towards sf, and stars Hywel Bennett as a struggling horror writer (sorry if you've read up on it already!) and Sting as an alien "angel". Hard to describe the plot. It's not as accessible as Penda, I think. Three-plus hours long. God knows what the public of 1981 made of it.

Smith, Rudkin, and Master and Margarita? Wow. Did you catch Smith in "Christopher and His Kind" earlier this year?

I know so few plays--certainly not enough to like whole playwrights. I very much liked Murder in the Cathedral, though, and I think I could stand to be in any play that TS Eliot wrote.

I very much liked Murder in the Cathedral, though, and I think I could stand to be in any play that TS Eliot wrote.

I don't know any of Eliot's plays other than Murder in the Cathedral! What are they like?

I don't know that he wrote any, alas. I was speaking of hypothetical other plays.

Your incessant monologizing fills the castle with ennui

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