sovay: (Psholtii: in a bad mood)
sovay ([personal profile] sovay) wrote2011-07-11 09:38 pm

But I was just some stupid boy on a bus

Coming back from Belmont this afternoon, I was re-reading Kim (1901) in preparation for the Kipling panel at Readercon on Friday when I became aware of a catechism going on at the back of the bus. At first I thought there were two voices, although it later became apparent there was a third involved, just not in English. Of the English-speaking, one belonged to a Japanese student whose reasons for being in Boston were some combination of graduate school and sightseeing. The other was the property of a very loud and insensibly curious American whose entire perception of modern Japan seemed to have been formed by bad World War II-era movies. At first I thought he was baiting the student and his companion, but he kept going with a kind of self-absorbed unstoppability long past the point where I would have expected any intentional racist to move into active slurs—honestly, it didn't cramp his style. If the Americans were going to apologize for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, shouldn't Japan have apologized for Pearl Harbor? Wasn't it true that foreigners weren't allowed to naturalize and Japanese girls were forbidden from marrying foreigners? Was the student married? Would he let his daughter marry a foreigner? Didn't Japanese men choose their daughters' husbands for them? How did they feel about Emperor Hirohito getting married? (Yes, I know.) Commoners weren't allowed to marry into the Japanese royal family, were they? And what about geisha girls? Didn't Japanese men visit geisha girls? What about Okinawa?

Despite politely correcting the man's assumption that he was Buddhist, the student was evidently possessed of the patience of about a zillion bodhisattvas, because he kept answering the man's questions: mostly with things like "No," "Not really," "Never," and the occasional "Why would that matter to me?" I couldn't tell if he was laughing from nervousness or because the conversation was so evidently from Planet Mongo. And I couldn't even offer to interrupt without shouting back across at least five rows of seats, which I did not think would help the situation. Eventually the student and the girl who had only spoken in Japanese got off in Arlington Center and the man yelled, "Sayonara!" after them several times. He himself left a few stops later and the ambient noise dropped by a shocking number of decibels. The rest of the bus was very quiet.

I hadn't realized until this afternoon that I need to know the formal Japanese for I apologize for my countryman who is being a fuckwit.

. . . I mean, I also sat across from an older man who spotted my Mission of Burma T-shirt and asked if I knew any of the band, because he was good friends with David Kleiler's father, after which we had a very nice conversation about the Alloy Orchestra and the Coolidge Corner Theatre, which he had helped save in the 1980's, but for God's sake.

[identity profile] helivoy.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 02:40 am (UTC)(link)
"Are all you people like those in 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding?'"

"Hey, can you teach me the syrtaki?"

"Must be lots of pizza parlors in Athens."

Etc., until you start thinking of baseball bats -- or spears.
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)

[personal profile] rosefox 2011-07-12 02:42 am (UTC)(link)
I apologize for my countryman who is being a fuckwit

I want cards that say this in two dozen languages.

[identity profile] cucumberseed.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 04:13 am (UTC)(link)
A deck, maybe standard deck of playing cards would be nice, just going with the top 52 most widely spoken languages to start. Maybe expansion packs...

[identity profile] strange-selkie.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 05:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Because it is my contractual obligation when someone quotes 1776:

For God's sake John, sit down!

[identity profile] tithenai.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 10:35 am (UTC)(link)
THIS.

[identity profile] ladymondegreen.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 05:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I believe there was a surge of t-shirts that said this in many languages during the Bush Jr. presidency. Cards would be nice too.

[identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 02:45 am (UTC)(link)
Ano atama no karappo na, sekai ni iyagarete iru yô na America-jin no urusai kaiwa ni makikomarete shimate, hontô ni môshi wake arimasen.

("I am very sorry that you ended up entangled in conversation with that empty-headed, universally despised type of American")

[identity profile] fjm.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 08:24 am (UTC)(link)
print it on a card to give out?

[identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 11:12 am (UTC)(link)
Sure! Of course, it would be great if we could get a native speaker to just make sure that I haven't messed up on particles. I'm probably kind of rusty. But here's how it works.

The verb comes at the end. In this case, you use a humble way of saying "to speak," which is môsu, and it comes in the set phrase "môshi wake arimasen," which means, literally, "there is no reason for my speaking" or "there is no excuse for my speaking," and is used to mean "I am very sorry." So that's the "I am very sorry" part. (subject "I" is understood)

Then, the rest are attributes of the verb, so to speak (I'm not sure that's the correct technical term)

"urusai kaiwai ni makikomarete shimatte":<--nb, should have been SHIMATTE, not SHIMATE

"makikomu" means "to pull into, to entangle," and "makikomaru" is the passive "to be pulled into, to become entangled in" and "shimau" is a verb of finality and intensity. (When you add "shimau," it adds the sense of "and then this went and happened." It's the difference between "The car broke down [koshô shita]" and "The car went and broke down" [koshô shite shimatta]) So "makikomarete shimatte" intensifies and expresses a feeling of regret about the "become entangled in" "urusai kaiwa" means "unpleasant, loud conversation"

So, "urusai kaiwa ni makikomarete shimatte" means "become intangled in unpleasant conversation." The verbs are in a continuative form because they're joining up with your apology at the end. The apology has the main verb.

The rest of it is adjectives describing this type of American.

America-jin = American.

"sekai ni iyagarete iru yô na American-jin" means "the type of American who is despised/disliked by the world" (sekai = world) (iyagaru= to be despised/disliked) (yô na= type of, kind of, pattern of)

"Atama no karappo na" is an adjectival phrase, slightly slang-ish, meaning "empty-headed"
"karappo" is slang-ish for empty. It has a connotation of a husk
"atama"=head

so you run "Atama no karappo na" together with "sekai ni iyagarete iru yô na America-jin"

and you get "empty headed, despised-by-the-world type of American," which I'm translating as "empty-headed, universally despised type of American."

And then "ano" at the very front means "That."

あの頭のからっぽな、世界にいやがれているようかアメリカ人のうるさい会話に巻き込まれてしまって、本当に申しわけありません。

I'll try to run it by someone Japanese on Facebook and get corrections.
Edited 2011-07-12 11:15 (UTC)

[identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 04:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Okay, so Nomura-san recommended that instead of saying "ano atama no karappo na, sekai ni iyagarete iru yô na America-jin," we say, "ano atama no karappo na America-jin--anna yatsu wa America demo sekaijû de iyagarete imasu ga--ano yatsu no urusai kaiwa ni makikomarete shimate, hontô ni môshi wake arimasen.

The part in between the dashes is the changed part. It says, "A jerk like that is despised alike throughout the world and in the United States."

He corrected my "sekai" to "sekaiju" (from "world" to "worldwide")--ten years ago I wouldn't have made that mistake--ughh, rusty language skills! More importantly, though, by saying "anna yatsu" ("a jerk like that"), he makes it clear we're condemning just that guy and not all Americans.

あの頭のからっぽな、アメリカ人 -- あんな奴はアメリカでも世間中でいやがれていますが --

[identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 04:14 pm (UTC)(link)
(The part rendered in characters is just the beginning part. Here's the whole thing:

あの頭のからっぽな、アメリカ人 -- あんな奴はアメリカでも世間中でいやがれていますが --あの奴のうるさい会話に巻き込まれてしまって、本当に申しわけありません

[identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 04:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I will!

[identity profile] tithenai.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 10:35 am (UTC)(link)
My love for you has just exploded my chest.

[identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 11:14 am (UTC)(link)
Aw shucks! Now I'm going to hasten over to Facebook and get some of my Japanese friends to correct this, before I have you all wandering around using slightly wrong Japanese.

I **think** it's right, but I want to be sure.

[identity profile] asakiyume.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 11:13 am (UTC)(link)
I already found one error: should have been "shimatte" instead of "shimate"

I'll run it by someone Japanese to see what else needs fixing.

[identity profile] fjm.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 08:24 am (UTC)(link)
At least he phrased it as questions!

In the past twelve months I have had one Canadian and one American offer me their sympathy for the apparently vicious anti-semitism UK Jews apparently live with on a daily basis.

[identity profile] fjm.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 07:21 pm (UTC)(link)
[snigger]

[identity profile] shewhomust.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 10:06 am (UTC)(link)
This sounds rather like someone I know (the son of friends of my brother) who has Asperger's.

[identity profile] tithenai.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 10:36 am (UTC)(link)
Aughhh.

Glad about the good conversation, though!

[identity profile] strange-selkie.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 11:40 am (UTC)(link)
I wish there was such a set of calling cards. I'd carry them in my reticule for use on the Metro.

[identity profile] strange-selkie.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 05:07 pm (UTC)(link)
Oooh.

I wonder what's the received standard idiom for "escalator-clogging douchenozzle."

[identity profile] ap-aelfwine.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 08:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Good grief, what an ever-loving twit. I've had encounters with rude strangers over the validity, nature, and continued survival of my language before, but that eejit takes the cake. I feel very sorry for his targets. Was he out of the grew-up-on-WWII-propaganda generation, do you think? Not that it's any excuse, of course.

I hadn't realized until this afternoon that I need to know the formal Japanese for I apologize for my countryman who is being a fuckwit.

Word.

. . . I mean, I also sat across from an older man who spotted my Mission of Burma T-shirt...

I'm glad there was at least good in the day and trip as well.
ext_118770: (zen lemur)

[identity profile] kerrickadrian.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 11:46 pm (UTC)(link)
I just had a lovely conversation with someone on a bus who was mentally ill and engaged in a clearly uncontrollable attempt to start conversation with a college-age young lady who was doing her best to ignore him. Rather than telling him to shut up and leave her alone, I turned around and started listening, occasionally interjecting something, and soon we were having an actual (if disjointed) conversation about war, farming, chickens, ostriches, and the karmic burden of eating meat and how different cultures deal with it. I just decided that if I didn't start talking with him, he was going to keep bothering her, and instead of trying to control his behavior for him I was going to try redirecting it. And actually that was kind of fun, once I let myself go along for the ride.

Maybe not as useful or as concise as learning "I am sorry you became entangled in conversation with that empty-headed, despised in America as well as throughout the world, type of American" in 47 languages, but I'm coming to accept that whatever facility with languages I had in high school, I no longer have.