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I loved him in the greenwood all out in wind and rain
Ellis Peters' Black Is the Colour of My True Love's Heart (1967) is a fascinating misdirection. Its debt to British folk music runs deeper than the corrosive filk which furnishes its title or its setting of students and singers convened for the weekend at an eccentrically independent music college just taking the plunge into the zeitgeist, but only in its final pages does it come fully clear as a modern twist on the ballad which serves as the code of its climax—specifically the version recorded by Ewan MacColl, so well disguised by all the cross-currents of the crime that even though the central events of the novel conform almost point by point to their Child originals, until the connection is made at first unconsciously by a character who finds a verse from her professional repertoire chiming a little ironically with the investigation that has enveloped the conference at Follymead, even a reader who has spent the last ten days on a jag of the British folk revival may not twig to the retelling. I feel as though my horizons of Peters have been suddenly widened. Structurally, but also tonally in its oblique and self-referential treatment of its source material, it's a lot closer to Elizabeth Marie Pope's The Perilous Gard (1974) or Pamela Dean's Juniper, Gentian, and Rosemary (1998) than to any of the Cadfael mysteries; in that its series characters are more witnesses than detectives of privately momentous events, it reminded me also of Margery Allingham's The China Governess (1962). Other aspects of the novel feel more opaque to me: partly because Peters demonstrates her familiarity with the folk music of the time, its cast of musicians feels as though they could be roman à clef and I couldn't make any of them come into focus, at least not as individuals. The Scottish singer introduced by his contribution of "two Tyne-side colliery songs and 'The Bonny Earl of Moray'" and later overheard doing "Geordie" seems the likely product of listening to a lot of MacColl and A. L. Lloyd. There's a weird jab at Tom Lehrer and an even weirder shout-out to Václav Havel. The canonical description of the ballad-singer Liri Palmer which appears on the first page of the novel—
The girl with the guitar-case [. . .] was perhaps nineteen or twenty, tall, slim, and of striking appearance. Her face was thin, richly coloured, with long, fine-drawn features and large, calm, fierce eyes as blue as steel. Her great fell of heavy brown hair coiled and spilled around her face with a dynamic life of its own, and was gathered into a waist-long braid as thick as her wrist, interwoven with narrow strips of soft red leather, as though only tethers strong enough for horses could confine it.
—translated itself promptly inside my head into an illustration by Greer Gilman. I had never read this book despite the uncertain conviction that I brought it home for my mother ages ago after we ran out of Cadfaels with which to present her; would recommend for its under-the-radar retelling and its snapshot of a scene which I am now curious how deeply Peters was involved in. She doesn't write of its music as if she merely put on a couple of LPs for atmosphere. "This is human, which is more than being folk."
The girl with the guitar-case [. . .] was perhaps nineteen or twenty, tall, slim, and of striking appearance. Her face was thin, richly coloured, with long, fine-drawn features and large, calm, fierce eyes as blue as steel. Her great fell of heavy brown hair coiled and spilled around her face with a dynamic life of its own, and was gathered into a waist-long braid as thick as her wrist, interwoven with narrow strips of soft red leather, as though only tethers strong enough for horses could confine it.
—translated itself promptly inside my head into an illustration by Greer Gilman. I had never read this book despite the uncertain conviction that I brought it home for my mother ages ago after we ran out of Cadfaels with which to present her; would recommend for its under-the-radar retelling and its snapshot of a scene which I am now curious how deeply Peters was involved in. She doesn't write of its music as if she merely put on a couple of LPs for atmosphere. "This is human, which is more than being folk."
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That's very handy!
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My knowledge / memory od the folk scene of the time extends to throwing more names into the mix, but not to discerning which of them might best fit. For what it's worth, then, the place to learn Tyneside colliery ballads would be Tyneside (or Topc records, of course). But would Ewan MacColl's rules have permitted a Scot to sing them? A little voice in my head reminds me that Bert Jansch was a Scit, and wonders about Anne Briggs, but I really am straying beyond my competence here...
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I have read any number of other novels and short stories based on folk songs and ballads and even discussed them with other people and I cannot remember this novel ever coming up! I have no idea what accounts for its obscurity unless it's not widely enough known that it is a retelling. I understand it could be a marketing problem; knowing which ballad would give the reader an advance clue to the mystery. But that shouldn't interfere with word of mouth and although it really is cleverly submerged for most of the novel—I had heard the substrate ballad and am normally attuned to exactly this kind of pattern recognition and still didn't pick up on it until the explicit quotation was dropped into the text—by the end of the book it's unambiguous.
My knowledge / memory od the folk scene of the time extends to throwing more names into the mix, but not to discerning which of them might best fit.
Please, your expertise is welcome!
For what it's worth, then, the place to learn Tyneside colliery ballads would be Tyneside (or Topc records, of course). But would Ewan MacColl's rules have permitted a Scot to sing them?
Mostly it's just that A. L. Lloyd recorded the earliest version of "Byker Hill" that I've heard and "The Bonny Earl of Moray" and "Geordie" appeared on different installments of his and MacColl's The English and Scottish Popular Ballads which I am confident that Peters had access to, so her Andrew Callum who sings all that kind of repertoire feels to me like the natural synthesis.
A little voice in my head reminds me that Bert Jansch was a Scit, and wonders about Anne Briggs, but I really am straying beyond my competence here...
I lost so much (unregretted) time last night listening to Anne Briggs and Shirley Collins and Frankie Armstrong in hopes of discerning an inspiration for Liri Palmer with her silver-steel voice that can turn as darkly spellbinding as a wild hunt in full cry, although I am not sure that any of them accompanied themselves on the guitar. Judy Collins and Joan Baez did, but are out of the running for being American.
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Ooh!
Nine
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You see why I want to know who Peters heard while writing her.
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So I may be misreading this, but I'm disconcerted by your search for a single model for Liri. I'd only expect a single model for quite a minor character, and you make Liri sound quite major.
Does it help that the book was published in 1967? You are looking to 1950s sources for the songs, but maybe things have become more fluid by the time of the narrative (assuming it is not back-dated, of course); by this time I had probably learned "The Bonny Earl of Moray" from Robin Hall and Jimmy MacGregor, and "Geordie" from Joan Baez. "Byker Hill" came later (from Martin Carthy).
There's a biography of Edith Pargeter by Margaret Lewis, but I don't have a copy of that, either ...
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No worries. Liri is one of the main characters. I wasn't trying to find her life model: like I said, none of the musicians seemed to have one. (I did find a claim that Follymead is recognizable as a slant version of the Shropshire Adult Education College at Attingham Park, with which Peters was involved, which I would totally not have picked up on.) I really did mean an inspiration, a jumping-off point from a singer or a performance in an analogous niche of the time, because she does feel as a character as though she has some substrate beyond the general scene and the author's imagination and it wasn't the structuring ballad—she's textually and metatextually outside its frame, the singer rather than any of the people sung about. The novel seems to be set about when it was written. I brought The English and Scottish Popular Ballads into it because the version of the ballad it uses is found in that anthology, therefore it doesn't feel like a stretch to assume that Peters was familiar with its contents and singers. I also learned "Geordie" from Joan Baez. "The Bonny Earl of Moray" I probably heard first by Richard Dyer-Bennet, not at the time, obviously.
There's a biography of Edith Pargeter by Margaret Lewis, but I don't have a copy of that, either ...
It's still neat to know about! I could check libraries.
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“His tongue is like a poisoned dart.”
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I may look up the rest of its series. She seems to have been staggeringly prolific under multiple names, mostly it looks like in mysteries and historical novels and obviously combinations of the two, and while I understand that nothing else she wrote was ever going to have the stature of the Cadfael Chronicles, I am surprised at how little profile her other books seem to have. There's a baker's dozen of a modern detective series and a positive ton of stand-alones. I had heard of some of her other medieval novels, but the contemporaries seem to outnumber them. Her very first published novel was called Hortensius, Friend of Nero (1936) and I have no confidence it was any good and absolutely want to read it.
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But, yes, it certainly doesn't seem in any way just a casual backdrop to hang behind the latest murder mystery - she does seem to use things in her novels that she cared about, or knew a good deal about.
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I remembered when we talked about it prior to the last ice age and was surprised and intrigued by its inclusion! So thank you: I enjoyed it in its own right and am extremely curious about the rest of her modern catalogue now.
I've only managed to pick up one other of this series so far, which is Rainbow's End (and I already cannot remember what I thought you would like about that one, too, but there was something, enough that I was torn for a minute, before I looked at them again and went: no contest.)
If I manage to read it, I'll let you know who or what leaps out at me!
But, yes, it certainly doesn't seem in any way just a casual backdrop to hang behind the latest murder mystery - she does seem to use things in her novels that she cared about, or knew a good deal about.
I want to find out what else she cared and knew about now! Have you read many others of her non-Cadfael novels?
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XD If I re-read also, I'll let you know, heh.
I want to find out what else she cared and knew about now! Have you read many others of her non-Cadfael novels?
No, my housemate used to rec these to me, but I ignored her for no reason at all other than I think at least some of them had quite small print!! So, this was my first as well, although I've loved the Cadfael ones for years. And while they were everywhere 20 years ago, Rainbow's End was the only other one I picked up in about, er, 5 years since I found this one (I had it for ages before I finally was in a state to read it).
[forgive my non-replies in other threads; I am this evening finally beginning to feel less wiped out by printer but it's also being summer and that has eliminated a good 2-3 hours of PC time simply by dint of this house facing full west, although I can look at dreamwidth on my phone at least. Rest assured/be duly warned that at some point soon you are getting rambly replies with links that I have bookmarked!! idk exactly when, if it doesn't happen tomorrow, because then I have to go out, which will make me ill all over again. Please feel free to add any further comments about WML or whatever as you go, I see them; I just can't type back unless I'm on the PC.<3]
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I appreciate the reassurance/warning: I figured you'd been knocked out for a couple of days and would return whenever. We finished the second series of Wish Me Luck which handed out more trauma all round than we had actually taken bets on and will be moving on to the third whenever I have reconstituted sufficiently for television, although I have osmosed the impression it's not as strong as the first two? Good luck in the meantime with the going out.
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And I will, further printing notwithstanding, lol.
We finished the second series of Wish Me Luck which handed out more trauma all round than we had actually taken bets on
*extends fellow commiseration and "I survived s2 of WML unlike some of the characters" badge*
although I have osmosed the impression it's not as strong as the first two?
I can't really say, because I was 12 when it aired and I was just incensed at lack of Julian Glover and Liz, and that colours it even now. It's different, and there are further cast losses (the returning mains are Faith, Kit, Emily & Luc), and it's no longer based on Nancy Wake's memoirs, but it is based instead on a real operation and is doing its own thing. You can tell me, when you feel up to managing it again. *hugs*
Btw, random but I just stumbled over someone with A Fatal Inversion (BBC 1992) up at Dailymotion, although the 3rd part seems to be labelled sensitive content and I can't see an immediate way to tell it that I am ok to watch fictional murders and it may continue, but it is still visibly there. idk whether you'd want to watch it, but I liked it a lot, and since I do seem to have also started you off down this rabbit hole, it does contain a particularly great early performance from Jeremy Northam as Rufus, by far the most interesting of a set of asshole characters he played around this time.
The important thing is, even if you don't want to watch it, especially if pt 3 won't play(!!), I can FINALLY link you to the bits I've wanting to for ages, because as I said, he's so good in this. Dailymotion doesn't seem to do the 'start' link thing like YT, so here are the three parts:
Pt1: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81k0fy
Pt2: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81k0kc
Pt3: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x81k0p6
And the relevant bits are pt1 31.14 (Rufus tries to start up a threesome with his girlfriend and Adam and the girlfriend removes herself) & pt.2 23.42, the dinner party where they play at being lord of the manor (in Adam's inherited posh house). If you're interested, don't worry if not!!
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Well, I'm forty-two and I'm incensed! What was Julian Glover doing instead?
idk whether you'd want to watch it, but I liked it a lot, and since I do seem to have also started you off down this rabbit hole, it does contain a particularly great early performance from Jeremy Northam as Rufus, by far the most interesting of a set of asshole characters he played around this time.
I just need you to know that while you were leaving this comment, I was doing my best to screencap you a Jeremy Northam as pictured in The British Theatre Yearbook 1990 in the National Theatre's The Voysey Inheritance, which I am informed by the internet he won an Olivier for, although frankly I just thought it would cheer you up. Relevant bits of Ruth Rendall so noted.
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And also it had not quite occurred to me that of course awards tend to be for things made in the previous year - so I'm also amused, because I knew the Voysey Inheritance was revived by the Royal Exchange Theatre in 1989 (the first major Brit production since 1965), but I hadn't realised that they'd stolen the National's thunder again, by beating them to it by one month - so James Maxwell was playing the father in one revival in Manchester and Jeremy Northam was the son in another in London. (Dates suggest they may actually have overlapped by a day or two, if there were performances on those days.)
re. Julian Glover; I know, it's terrible, there were suddenly all these men and not one of them was Julian Glover!! XD Obviously what took him away I don't know for certain, but it looks most likely it was Indiana Jones & the Last Crusade. Which is fair enough, really. I bet they paid more than ITV.
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You're welcome! The Edwardian era looked good on him.
because I knew the Voysey Inheritance was revived by the Royal Exchange Theatre in 1989 (the first major Brit production since 1965), but I hadn't realised that they'd stolen the National's thunder again, by beating them to it by one month - so James Maxwell was playing the father in one revival in Manchester and Jeremy Northam was the son in another in London.
What a tragedy there was no fusing the two.
Obviously what took him away I don't know for certain, but it looks most likely it was Indiana Jones & the Last Crusade.
I wondered about that because it was around the right time and huge, but it was filmed over the summer of 1988, so the production dates don't seem to line up with the final series of Wish Me Luck. Whatever, I do not approve.
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LOL, yes, and much to his dismay. I've seen a quote from him on one of the Northam tumblrites from the late 90s where he's talking about how his heart sinks when he goes for costuming and they pull out the starched collars yet again.
What a tragedy there was no fusing the two.
Heh. I looked at the plot when I was checking up (because I had no idea the Nat. production came out so close to the RE one), and I nearly laughed aloud, because not only is it yet another thing where Jeremy Northam is a lawyer who does the right thing at cost (i'm at at least 3 and counting), but the only US theatre production was one rewritten by David Mamet in the early 21st C, so, lol, some things are eternal?
I wondered about that because it was around the right time and huge, but it was filmed over the summer of 1988,
Oh, no, that does sound unlikely, then. Film production dates are so wildly variable that I suppose we'd have to ask Julian Glover himself what he was up to. I doubt it was the Bergerac episode, though!
(Btw, re. the Fatal INversion thing, though it is Ruth Rendell, it's Barbara Vine - psychological thrillers involving pasts that are slowly untangled over the course of the novel by the characters themselves. Not that I've read a RR, or even watched an adaptation, but I was v unsure about this one, and got the impression that there was a distinct difference in format/tone when I was looking into it - but also this & the second were adapted by Sandy Welch, who did what amounts to a whole line up of my favourite classic lit adaptations, and I was just, oh well, will trust her with my life at this point!!)
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Hurrah for more than one local library system!
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w00t! I hope you enjoy.
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I have actually not read that one of hers! Is it also based around a ballad?
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I should read it.
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Thank you for the extra vote! The epistolary form does sound like a great choice for the material.
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Nine
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Now I just need to find a copy!
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P.
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You're welcome! It really doesn't seem to have leapt the gap to its expected audience if my comments are any indication. It's the only retelling of its ballad I have encountered, too, which you'd think would make it of more interest rather than less. I only know one novel each for "Sir Patrick Spens" and "The Famous Flower of Serving Men," but it makes them easy to keep track of.
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You make me want to draw! While listening to music.
Nine
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It used to lurk quite regularly in local book stores and the BPL claims to have it. Alternately I could lend you my copy which came from
You make me want to draw! While listening to music.
I think you should.
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There are ebooks about, I see.
Alternately I could lend you my copy which came from
A perfect gift.
I think you should [draw].
I'd love to, but I'm travelling in a few days and I've forgotten how, and it's scary.
Nine
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*hugs*
I trust you to remember. Maybe you can sketch as you travel. Time-honored.
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It was directed by Roddy McDowell, so is a sort-of twin to Night of the Hunter: directed by a brilliant actor; flopped on initial release, so history was robbed of any further directorial efforts by them; reevaluated later as an overlooked gem.
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I don't know if you heard about it from me, but I've seen it and I love it; I've just never managed to write about it.
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I hope you will!
Nine
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And what was the jab at Tom Lehrer?
The story sounds very cool!
The funny thing about The Perilous Gard is that I read it before I knew about Tam Lin ... so when I came to the ballad of Tam Lin, it was a giant dose of ohhhhhhhhh
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She draws wonderfully. My copy of Cloud & Ashes (2009) has a little sketch of my favorite character on the frontispiece.
And what was the jab at Tom Lehrer?
It's in the tag of a lecture by the visiting scholar of folk music:
'After dinner, if you’re not bored with the subject by now,' promised Professor Penrose, switching off the record-player, 'we'll go on considering this odd question of historical origins, and try to find out why some of the events celebrated found their way straight into folk-song, and why others, some of the bitterest, too, on occasion, became "innocuous" nursery rhymes. It's a far cry from a feudal social tragedy like "The trees they do grow high" to "Ring a ring o' roses," you might think, but which of them came into being as catharsis for the more unbearable memory? Or didn't you know about "Ring a ring o' roses"? The ring of roses was the outcrop of bubonic ulcers, the pocket full of posies was the bunch of herbs you carried to try and ward off infection, the sneezes were one of the initial and ominous symptoms, and once you'd got that far you all fell down and stayed down until the cart came along to collect. And some inspired Tom Lehrer of the plague year turned it into a nursery game! Well, after all, you all know what happened to "Gulliver." It's a way we have with the unendurable, to give it to the children to play with.'
I believe the plague explanation has been exploded since the novel was written (and possibly even before), but that got my attention less than the idea of a thirteenth-century Tom Lehrer. I conclude Ellis Peters had heard "So Long, Mom" and/or "We Will All Go Together When We Go." "Now World War III is almost upon us, as you know—by popular demand, it seems—and it occurred to me that if any songs are going to come out of World War III, we'd better start writing them now."
The story sounds very cool!
It has perfectly serviceable cover copy for a mystery and is so much more interesting than it!
The funny thing about The Perilous Gard is that I read it before I knew about Tam Lin ... so when I came to the ballad of Tam Lin, it was a giant dose of ohhhhhhhhh
That's great. "Tam Lin" is one of the ballads I didn't hear sung for years, but learned the story so far back I can't remember from where—I knew it by the time of encountering the Yolen/Micolaycak retelling, for example. It may have been a redaction in a book of fairy tales or the lyrics in one of the collections of ballads I would read from libraries just because they were on the shelf. I wouldn't change how I read as a child, but it does make for some very amorphous history.
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When Tom Lehrer put his stuff into the public domain, I downloaded a bunch of them. I really like that line to introduce "So Long Mom."
Re: Ring a Ring o'Roses (or Ring around a Rosie), I remember hearing that theory of the origin, and I remember hearing that it wasn't thought to be true anymore, but I haven't followed up on the ins and outs of that change (or for that matter, where the gloss for it being about the plague came from)... I feel like that could be an interesting story.
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It was wholly unexpected and I still can't believe it doesn't have more crossover with the kind of people who read graphic novels by Charles Vess.