sovay: (Viktor & Mordecai)
sovay ([personal profile] sovay) wrote2020-10-26 03:48 am

I asked if it made any difference if I should cross the line

Formulated in a friend's comments, transplanted here with minor emendations so that I remember it:

Since I continue not just to dislike but feel actively alienated by the term "demisexual" even though conceptually it is the closest of the extant labels to the mode in which my attraction to other people operates (all physical interest in a person follows from emotional and intellectual interest in them: I have never had a sexual partner who was not a friend first and I don't even seem to develop crushes on people I do not know; I suspect it of being linked on some level to the part where my interest in people's bodies does not take their sex or gender as a relevant consideration), it appears that my personal fix-it is "philosexual," because the connotations of Greek φίλος "beloved" do not confine to a particular kind of love. The professor from whom I learned Greek always translated φίλοι as one's "near and dear," encompassing family, lovers, friends. "Philosexual" would accurately convey for me the sense of "hot for the one you love" which is totally lacking from the construction of "demisexual," where the focus is on the half-quality of the sexuality over the experience of its activation. Now I just have to hope this term was not previously coined by some deeply skeevy human being and that's why it never caught on.

(My alienation and welcome to it: speaking personally, I don't feel I do sexuality by halves, and sociologically I have a lot of problems with the idea that a person only counts as a fully sexual being if they want to climb strangers like Kangchenjunga. I understand the value of the term by the number of people who use it as a self-identifier, but the idea that I should consider the manner in which I acquire my partners a significant part of my sexual identity remains, honestly, peculiar to me.)
selkie: (Default)

[personal profile] selkie 2020-10-26 09:14 am (UTC)(link)
At some level all sexual identity is peculiar (no word for my attraction spectrum, just a long-proven record of being the maiden in the clearing with the golden bridle for a bunch of gender unicorns, which sounds slightly sinister but it’s 5 am [edit I have analyzed this and I will see myself out]), but at least you’ve given articulate thought to it and you had the Greek font pack installed. Those are significant advantages.

Post-coffee edit: climb what like what?
Edited 2020-10-26 17:14 (UTC)
cmcmck: (Default)

[personal profile] cmcmck 2020-10-26 10:04 am (UTC)(link)
These terms are a real issue for sure.

While the term 'transsexual' fits the issues I needed to deal with as well as any, it suggests a sexual orientation over much, which it isn't.

I find that 'straight woman' works quite well'

And then, for all of us, there's 'me'. :o)
Edited 2020-10-26 12:28 (UTC)

[personal profile] anna_wing 2020-10-26 11:05 am (UTC)(link)
sociologically I have a lot of problems with the idea that a person only counts as a fully sexual being if they want to climb strangers like Kangchenjunga.

Indeed! Anyway, is it really necessary to have a category? What business is it of anyone else's except yours and the other participating parties?

Would "philosexual" be also interpretable as "liking sex"?

mrissa: (Default)

[personal profile] mrissa 2020-10-26 11:49 am (UTC)(link)
I feel like if we ever live in a truly civilized culture, we'll find even wider variation than we do now in what elements of "the same" identity are important to different people. There are currently white people in the US who have honestly no idea where their ancestors came from as well as white people who are deeply culturally invested in their ethnic origins, and everything in between--because all the options are basically safe at this point, for the vast majority of white people in the US. I hope that at some point we can be in the same place with relational structures: that some people will have "I acquire my partners this way and this is how many and what terms" as major pieces of personal identity and some may not even be able to tell you how they're put together that way because it's just not something they've been forced to make important. And everything in between.
lauradi7dw: me wearing a straw hat and gray mask (anniversary)

[personal profile] lauradi7dw 2020-10-26 01:55 pm (UTC)(link)
>>a person only counts as a fully sexual being if they want to climb strangers like Kangchenjunga<<

I tend to go off on tangents and be fairly literal in many cases. I know what you mean, but was a bit taken aback at the idea of sexy times involving crampons and belaying, or whatever one would use for mountain climbing.
sartorias: (Default)

[personal profile] sartorias 2020-10-26 02:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Interesting one. I've never found the right one yet that fits me, though philosexual might come the closest?. (And mostly stopped discussing it a few years back when I began to notice that younger folk seemed to be skeeved by the idea of old people falling in love/being sexual)

I will say this, I hadn't even hit puberty yet when I realized I was a total outlier--I felt very intense love for individuals irregardless of gender--and so had to go covert.
minoanmiss: Nubian girl with dubious facial expression (dubious Nubian girl)

[personal profile] minoanmiss 2020-10-26 03:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh interesting! I had always been a bit weirded by 'demisexual' but figured since it wasn't my label it wasn't my business. (I do occasionally see strangers I want to climb like the proverbial tree, but the idea that that is proof of anything really doesn't follow, yeah.) I think you've adeptly explained not only what works for you but my own half formed thoughts to me.
liv: oil painting of seated nude with her back to the viewer (body)

[personal profile] liv 2020-10-26 05:25 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you, this rings true for me. I also have no sexual interest in strangers and don't really get 'crushes'. And I also don't like the word 'demisexual' because I don't feel like my attraction is worth half someone else's. I'm much more drawn to philosexual, thank you for that, though I think there is potential confusion with words using -philic or -phile as a suffix.
ashlyme: Picture of me wearing a carnival fox mask (Default)

[personal profile] ashlyme 2020-10-26 05:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks - I'll use "philosexual" for myself in future.

(This is not the time or place to start ranting about that horrible term "sapiosexual" and the people who use it.)
gwynnega: (Default)

[personal profile] gwynnega 2020-10-26 08:39 pm (UTC)(link)
which is totally lacking from the construction of "demisexual," where the focus is on the half-quality of the sexuality over the experience of its activation

Yes, I've never understood the "half" connotation of "demisexual," which seems to imply it's less than other kinds of sexuality.
buttonsbeadslace: A white lace doily on blue background (Default)

[personal profile] buttonsbeadslace 2020-10-26 08:47 pm (UTC)(link)
It is pretty strange that "demisexual", which sounds like it should mean a really general "sexual but only sort of / sometimes", ended up meaning this one specific type of experience. I call myself gray-asexual and I feel like I always have to explain that I don't mean demi, because it seems to be a better-known term, but it would almost make more sense if "demi" meant what gray-ace currently means.
ashlyme: Picture of me wearing a carnival fox mask (Default)

[personal profile] ashlyme 2020-10-26 10:01 pm (UTC)(link)
*"I only date people I deem sufficiently intelligent by my standards, which luckily for everyone else serves as a signal that I am in fact an insufferable twat"?*

I laughed so hard when I read this. Yep, that exactly! Everyone else would just use the phrase "minds are sexy". Wankers.
selkie: (Default)

[personal profile] selkie 2020-10-26 10:09 pm (UTC)(link)
This is a magnificent desciption and I wish we could get Tab Kimpton to illustrate it.

It would absolutely fit as a majestic and curvy seated figure on a shirt! I hang around, they show up, folks get petted. Back in the late 20th I was baffled, but I catch up.

then what's the definition of "sexual" rather than any ace-spectrum alternatives? Nice boots or go home? It feels incredibly restrictive to me.

It is, more's the pity; there has to be something so much more complex and inclusive and varied to "sexual" or we're not humans, IMO. (Also, to be shallow on the point, I have no interest in the outwardly very nicest boots if they can't keep up with my metaphorical chess!)

And should we move the discussion into a wider or more academic space all that'd happen is a cis white dude with tenure would run away with the conversation. But then we could eat him, so.

(...we could, yes, eat him?)
selkie: (Default)

[personal profile] selkie 2020-10-26 10:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes, dear. That.
(I am picky and my tastes are hard to match with and I am a goddamn snob, but there is really only one! gender and orientation that uses sapiosexual.)
Edited 2020-10-26 22:14 (UTC)

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