sovay: (Viktor & Mordecai)
sovay ([personal profile] sovay) wrote2020-06-25 05:36 pm

But I know that I'm different and they're not quite me

I was reminded again this afternoon that as far as I can tell, I encountered my first non-binary character in Jean M. Auel's The Valley of Horses (1982), which I read for the first time, partly under my desk in social studies class, in seventh grade.

When they were gone, Jondalar scooped the last dregs of the fermented bilberry juice into two cups and gave one to the enigmatic figure waiting in the quiet dark. The Shamud took it, tacitly understanding they had more to say to each other. The young man scraped the last few coals together near the edge of the blackened circle and added wood until a small fire was glowing. They sat for a while, silently sipping wine, huddled over the flickering warmth.

When Jondalar looked up, the eyes, whose indefinable color was merely dark in the firelight, were scrutinizing him. He felt power in them, and intelligence, but he appraised with equal intensity. The crackling, hissing flames cast moving shadows across the old face, blurring the features, but even in daylight Jondalar had been unable to define any specific characteristics, other than age. Even that was a mystery.

There was strength in the wrinkled face, which lent it youthfulness though the long mane of hair was shocking white. And while the figure beneath the loose clothing was spare and frail, the step had spring. The hands alone spoke unequivocally of great age, but for all their arthritic knobs and blue-veined parchment skin, no palsied flutter shook the cup that was lifted to the mouth.

The movement broke eye contact. Jondalar wondered if the Shamud had done it deliberately to relieve a tension that was growing. He took a sip. "The Shamud good healer, has skill," he said.

"It is a gift of Mudo."

Jondalar strained to hear some quality of timbre or tone that would shade the androgynous healer in one direction or the other, only to satisfy his nagging curiosity. He had not yet discerned whether the Shamud was female or male, but he did have an impression that in spite of the neutrality of gender, the healer had not led a celibate life. The satirical quips were too often accompanied by knowing looks. He wanted to ask, but he didn't know how to phrase his question tactfully.

"Shamud life not easy, must give up much," Jondalar tried. "Did healer ever want mate?"

For an instant the inscrutable eyes widened; then the Shamud broke into sardonic laughter. Jondalar felt a hot flash of embarrassment.

"Whom would you have had me mate, Jondalar? Now, if you had come along in my younger years, I might have been tempted. Ah, but would you have succumbed to my charms? If I had given the Blessing Tree a string of beads, could I have wished you to my bed?" the Shamud said with a slight, demure bend of the head. For a moment, Jondalar was convinced it was a young woman who spoke.

"Or would I have needed to be more circumspect? Your appetites are well developed; could I have aroused your curiosity to a new pleasure?"

Jondalar flushed, sure he had been mistaken, yet strangely drawn to the look of sensuous lechery and the catlike sinuous grace the Shamud projected with a body shift. Of course, the healer was a man, but with a woman's tastes in his pleasures. Many healers drew from both the male and female principle; it gave them stronger powers. Again he heard the sardonic laugh.

"But if the life of a healer is difficult, it's worse for the mate of one. A mate should be a man's first consideration. It would be hard to leave someone like Serenio, for instance, in the middle of the night to take care of someone who was sick, and there are long periods of abstinence required . . ."

The Shamud was leaning forward, talking to him man to man, with a gleam in his eye at the thought of a woman as lovely as Serenio. Jondalar shook his head with puzzlement. Then, with a movement of the shoulders, the masculinity had a different character. One that excluded him.

". . . and I'm not sure I'd want to leave her alone with a lot of rapacious men around."

The Shamud was a woman, but not one that would ever be attracted to him, or he to her, as anything more than a friend. It was true, the healer's power came from the principle of both sexes but was that of a woman with a man's tastes.

The Shamud laughed again, and the voice had no shading of gender. With a level look of person to person that asked human understanding, the old healer continued.

"Tell me, which one am I, Jondalar? Which one would you mate? Some try to find a relationship, one way or another, but it seldom lasts long. Gifts are not an unmixed blessing. A healer has no identity, except in the larger sense. One's personal name is given back, the Shamud effaces self to take on the essence of all. There are benefits, but mating is not usually among them.

"When one is young, being born to a destiny is not necessarily desirable. It is not easy to be different. You may not want to lose your identity. But it doesn't matter—the destiny is yours. There is no other place for one who carries the essence of both man and woman in one body."

In the fire's dying light, the Shamud looked as ancient as the Earth Herself, staring at the coals with unfocused eyes as though seeing another time and place. Jondalar got up to get a few more sticks of wood, then nursed the fire back to life. As the flames took hold, the healer straightened, and the look of irony returned. "That was long ago, and there have been . . . compensations. Not the least is discovering one's talent and gaining knowledge. When the Mother calls one to Her service, it isn't all sacrifice."


I read the first four books of Earth's Children (1980–2011) in middle school and do not regret not returning decades later for the final two; it became much more obvious to me as an adult that the id-engine of the series was problematic on top of problematic with a side order of herbal medicine, heroic engineering, and deep time, which is of course what I noticed and cared about at the time. There's some of that here, with the idea of the character who belongs nowhere except where the magic of their marginalization places them. I still love them and their shape-shifting, truthful trolling of the co-protagonist, especially when Auel's matriarchal Paleolithic is otherwise so heavily cishet. I love that the question of their physical sex is never answered even for the reader. I remembered them when most of the rest of my memories of that book had reduced to a cave lion cub, river travel, and lots of porny euphemisms for the tab-a-slot-b of m/f sex. And now the book at the top of the stack at my bedside has a non-binary protagonist, so.
sholio: sun on winter trees (Default)

[personal profile] sholio 2020-06-25 10:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I had forgotten completely about that character! But then again I haven't read the books since I was in my teens. I suspect they haven't aged well. I think it's interesting how often the books are lambasted for making the protagonist unrealistically smart and competent - basically a Mary Sue - but that was so much of the appeal for me when I was a child. How often do you get to read about a teenage girl inventing a bunch of important things and living alone in the wilderness with a pet wolf and wild horse? I was also really into all the details of herblore and making things from scratch and entirely into the whole idea of running off to live in a cave in a valley, so it was marvelous for wish fulfillment. I think it also helped kick-start my interest in archaeology, because of the way that she incorporated real Paleolithic artifacts into the book and showed in the little inset map where they had been found.

It's too bad that we can't have that, just without the rape and porn.
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)

[personal profile] rosefox 2020-06-26 01:03 am (UTC)(link)
I bought myself a dictionary of medicinal plants.

...now that you mention it, so did I. I wonder whether those books were part of why.

I appreciated Ayla being such an inventor, but somewhere around when she invented soap and needles and sunglasses, my disbelief unsuspended itself.
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)

[personal profile] rosefox 2020-06-26 02:33 am (UTC)(link)
I think I remember that being in there too, but it's been so long. Those are due for the sort of reread that goes up on tor.com.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2020-06-26 06:23 pm (UTC)(link)
She does invent the bra, but it's in the context of her hunting IIRC, but it's also not like there aren't literally hundreds of books about boys and grown men who are unbelievably inventive and manage to come up with all sorts of things....
sholio: sun on winter trees (Default)

[personal profile] sholio 2020-06-26 10:10 pm (UTC)(link)
She does invent the bra, but it's in the context of her hunting IIRC

This is the specific reason why Ayla inventing a ton of different things never struck me as weird or unrealistic. They're all things that someone might plausibly think about while doing the things she does. It doesn't parse so much as "Ayla invents everything from the menstrual cup to the computer" as "Ayla is a clever and inventive person who keeps coming up with ways to make her daily tasks easier."

... with the caveat that I last read most of these at 15 and obviously wasn't thinking about any of it in too much depth then. But, while I totally relate to and sympathize with being knocked out of suspension of disbelief in the story for any reason (I mean, the reasons why I have stopped reading books are many and varied), I do think that the Superinventor Mary Sue Ayla characterization has been way overblown in the way people talk about these books, vs. the way her characterization comes across when embedded in its context.

(Caveats apply, etc.)
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2020-06-26 10:21 pm (UTC)(link)
I do think that the Superinventor Mary Sue Ayla characterization has been way overblown in the way people talk about these books, vs. the way her characterization comes across when embedded in its context

YES, SERIOUSLY

Like "she invents the travois LOL!" Well yeah, because (again, IIRC, I haven't read these in decades) she's trying to move Jondalar and he's going to die if she can't figure out how. And it's not "inventing" in the modern sense of Edison or whoever submitting patents and getting credit in society -- most of the time she's by herself, and it's "come up with stuff or die." With the giant caveat that I reread the first and second books as a kid and teenager, was seriously WTF at the third, and I know I must have read the fourth and fifth but just don't remember them at all. So maybe she is more Mary Sue in those! But what I loved about the first couple of books was the sort of Robinson Crusoe quality.
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2020-06-26 10:22 pm (UTC)(link)
also Thonolan was way better than Jondalar, who was a pill
sholio: sun on winter trees (Default)

[personal profile] sholio 2020-06-27 06:42 am (UTC)(link)
Oh man, I was NINE when I read Valley of Horses for the first time, and I still remember how upset I was about Thonolan's death! I was really engaged in his brother interactions with Jondalar (who I didn't like as well) and didn't want him to be dead AT ALL. :(

(It's kind of funny to me how, in some ways, my tastes for certain things had already become established by that point.)
sholio: sun on winter trees (Default)

[personal profile] sholio 2020-06-27 07:34 am (UTC)(link)
I choose to think it makes us consistent. :D We've always known who we were.
thistleingrey: (Default)

[personal profile] thistleingrey 2020-06-28 02:40 am (UTC)(link)
I have that feeling sometimes, too--but it helped me not long ago to sort through a pile of mismatched puzzle pieces and see how they needed to be rotated and flipped so that I wouldn't accidentally make a too-different me from them. (I edited a few things by intent.) (It was absolutely a hacker exercise, or rather a set of them--no other way for me to conceptualize it.)
desireearmfeldt: (Default)

[personal profile] desireearmfeldt 2020-06-26 09:40 pm (UTC)(link)
I also hit the "you are inventing too many things" threshold, though I don't now remember whether that bothered me when reading the books, or only when looking back on them. :)
ethelmay: (Default)

[personal profile] ethelmay 2020-06-26 02:08 am (UTC)(link)
I am still a little scarred from the this-one-definitely-not-for-kids Rosemary Sutcliff that turned out to include numerous references to "man-spears."
choco_frosh: Bede, from a MS in Benediktbeuern or someplace (baeda)

[personal profile] choco_frosh 2020-06-26 05:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I do reread vols. 1, 2 and 4. occasionally. They're...yeah. But they're readable.

(I got about three chapters into The Mammoth Hunters, realized that this was going to be one of those books where the author was going to make everyone have implausibly bad communication skills and common sense so as to make the romantic plot go, and gave up.)

The plot of Plains of Passage isn't memorable because it basically doesn't HAVE a plot. It's more like a vehicle for a series of short stories [STOP READING HERE IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE REMINDED]: The Inevitable Mammoth Porn Scene, They Visit the Sharamudoi And Drama Ensues, Ayla&Jondalar vs. the Feminazis, Ayla&Jondalar vs. the Rapist Bros, Ayla&Jondalar vs. the Glacier, Jondalar's Sister Settles and Everyone Cries, and so on and so on.
Edited 2020-06-26 17:12 (UTC)
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2020-06-26 10:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, Mammoth Hunters was sooo disappointing. Then again, I pretty much just now realized talking to [personal profile] sholio that I loved the books when Ayla was on her own surviving like a badass, and my interest dropped precipitously when she actually met people other than the Clan, lol.
choco_frosh: (Default)

[personal profile] choco_frosh 2020-06-27 11:10 am (UTC)(link)
I WARNED YOU TO STOP READING.

(Seriously, though, I’m sorry for reminding you. Why don’t comments have a ‘cut’ feature?)
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2020-06-26 06:21 pm (UTC)(link)
When I first read Clan of the Cave Bear, I absolutely fell in love with the part where Ayla survives on her own after being exiled instead of dying miserably. I carefully looked up and wrote out a list in my notebook of all the plants mentioned....and of course not a lot of them were in New Mexico. But I was prepared!
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2020-06-26 06:19 pm (UTC)(link)
I think they aged terribly, but I think you and I also talked before about how kind of crushing it is to hear people mock Ayla for inventing EVERYTHING. As a young girl who read lots of books in lots of genres, do you know how many at that point had girls and young women who were amazingly competent and also invented things and lived successfully on their own? NOT A LOT.
katherine: A line of books on a shelf, in greens and browns (books)

[personal profile] katherine 2020-06-25 11:30 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm re-reading The Mammoth Hunters at the moment but haven't got to the passage you quote yet, winter is just beginning and no baby wolves yet!
katherine: A line of books on a shelf, in greens and browns (books)

[personal profile] katherine 2020-06-26 04:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Now how can I fit that to the tune of Twelve Days of Christmas...

Two something horses, a cave lion too, and a fluffy baby wolf...
Edited 2020-06-26 16:38 (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)

[personal profile] rosefox 2020-06-26 01:02 am (UTC)(link)
Wow, I'd forgotten that character entirely. The primary value those books had to me and my teen friends was in the dog-eared pages that described sharing Pleasures, heh.
Edited 2020-06-26 01:04 (UTC)
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2020-06-26 06:25 pm (UTC)(link)
I think the Educational Informative Wholesomeness part tended to mask that. I remember a lot of "historical novels" easily available to pre-adolescent me which had a lot of sex scenes in them, they just also were basically history RPF. I still miss the giant romance novels of the past which were jam-packed with all kinds of infodumpy treasure about various industries. (Falcon Crest was very detailed about the winemaking history of California!)
kore: (Default)

[personal profile] kore 2020-06-26 09:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Aww, Mask of Apollo was always my favourite, even with that fucking sad ending.
desireearmfeldt: (Default)

[personal profile] desireearmfeldt 2020-06-26 01:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I was introduced to the books via reading the sex scenes at a slumber party. :)
desireearmfeldt: (Default)

[personal profile] desireearmfeldt 2020-06-26 09:38 pm (UTC)(link)
When I was in middle school, my friends and I all had this idea from popular culture that you were supposed to do wild and crazy things and play Truth or Dare and talk about sex at slumber parties, but we were not really that kind of crowd. (In fact, I think the Clan of the Cave Bear scenes were outside the comfort zone for some at that particular party.) It was our way of being daring and teenager-like!

So then, having read these out of context sex scenes, I went home and discovered we actually had Clan of the Cave Bear in the room of less favored books that haven't been banished to the basement or given away yet. So I read it & then acquired the next couple for myself.

I think, when looking back on books one read as an adult, there are several perspective changes going on at the same time.

Adult eyes see differently than child eyes, and that's partly maturing, and partly having a lot more context about the world that changes how you understand stuff in the book, but there's also a piece where the first time you come across X, it's novel, and the 200th time, it's an example of how there's too much X in the world, or at least you can see how it's like other examples of X and maybe someone else did it better.

And then, not only did one grow up, but the times changed and the norms of society evolved (even assuming one stayed in the same society for all that time, and of course one might have moved elsewhere). And things that were ahead of their time at the time now seem backward and problematic and geez, how did we ever put up with that? (And it's not like no one at the time understood that those things were problematic. But they were also often a step forward from previous problems. Or mixed up in the attempt to move forward from previous problems. I hope the adults at the time were raising a fuss about the blondness/whiteness of Ayla and Jondolar and how that was used in the books, for example. I don't remember how aware I was of that as problematic at the time, or if not, when that awareness permeated my memory of the books.)
julian: Picture of the sign for Julian Street. (Default)

[personal profile] julian 2020-06-26 02:58 am (UTC)(link)
The first one has less Inventing The World, but, admittedly, more rape. Valley is where she starts Inventing Everything, but not to extreme levels yet.

She did a pretty good job with a very plausible (basically) alien culture in Clan, I have to say.
selkie: (Default)

[personal profile] selkie 2020-06-26 03:40 am (UTC)(link)
This series is how we discovered Child’s puritanical streak. They went for ... I dunno, the one with the French Neolithic horsie painting on it, at the library, in the Before Times; we were browsing some feet away and heard “That’s Inna-PRO-pri-UT!”

They more than comprehend polycules and lots of complex gender interactions; I guess it was the throbbing spears.
kore: (Cascadia Pride Flag)

[personal profile] kore 2020-06-26 06:18 pm (UTC)(link)
....wow, some of that almost sounds like Le Guin in LHOD!
grammarwoman: A stack of books (book stack)

[personal profile] grammarwoman 2020-06-29 06:22 pm (UTC)(link)
My parents had the first book (which I devoured), so when I saw during a babysitting evening at a neighbor's house that they had Valley, I asked if I could borrow it. I think it was the first time a book gave me pants feelings; I couldn't believe they just handed it over. I was like 13 or so at the time. The sequels were definitely a letdown.