Will I learn from their afflictions? Have I learned from my mistakes?

[sovay]

My poem "An Obedience Experiment" is now online at Rattle as this week's Poets Respond. There are notes included.

I am honored that the poem is being published in this fashion; I wish there had been no occasion to write it.

In 1961, Stanley Milgram found that 65% of his subjects complied all the way to the final supposed 450 volts. The percentages on a re-run in 2006 were nearly identical. Either we change the numbers or that 35% is going to burn out fast. I prefer Option A.

Comments

[rinue]

Very nice! Obviously, I read the poem earlier in the week, somewhat in progress, but it's wonderful to see it again in this context, with explanatory notes. I had no idea about the Milgram-pomegranate connection (even though melograno, the Italian, is very close to milgram/milgroym). And congratulations - I love Poets Respond.

[sovay]

Very nice! Obviously, I read the poem earlier in the week, somewhat in progress, but it's wonderful to see it again in this context, with explanatory notes.

Thank you!

had no idea about the Milgram-pomegranate connection (even though melograno, the Italian, is very close to milgram/milgroym).

Oh, that's cool—I didn't know the Italian, although it makes sense once I can see it. They must both have come out of Latin, which is not usually something I get to say about Yiddish vocabulary.

And congratulations - I love Poets Respond.

I am really, really pleased with this acceptance and publication. I wasn't expecting it.

[thistleingrey]

Very cool publication!

[sovay]

Very cool publication!

Thank you!

[sathari]

Here from my network page to tell you about... well, he's Milgram's opposite number, in a sense--- the guy who made his research about that other 35%: Kasimirez Dabrowski. (I can expand on this as someone who connected intensely with his work over 20 years ago when that connection was more about intensity of lived experience across various domains rather than resisting authoritarian cruelty. But the short form is... we're made for this. We do as individuals need breaks to recharge over time because this is a marathon relay-race, not a single-runner sprint. But you've reminded me that this is what I'm built to do.)

[sovay]

Here from my network page to tell you about... well, he's Milgram's opposite number, in a sense--- the guy who made his research about that other 35%: Kasimirez Dabrowski.

Pleased to meet you! I know Dąbrowski's name and the general idea of his theory, but very little of the details. I appreciate the link.

But the short form is... we're made for this. We do as individuals need breaks to recharge over time because this is a marathon relay-race, not a single-runner sprint. But you've reminded me that this is what I'm built to do.

Then I'm glad the poem was useful to you. Thank you for telling me.

[nineweaving.livejournal.com]

Language as edged tool. I didn't know that "Milgram" meant pomegranate, or the seeds/mitzvot equivalence. So you've given me beauty with anger. Thank you.

Nine

[gwynnega]

Congratulations on the publication at Rattle!

[sovay]

Congratulations on the publication at Rattle!

Thank you!

[sovay]

Language as edged tool. I didn't know that "Milgram" meant pomegranate, or the seeds/mitzvot equivalence. So you've given me beauty with anger. Thank you.

You're very welcome.

There's a recurring interaction in Experimenter where people ask Milgram what kind of a last name that is; he always tells them first that it's Hebrew for pomegranate—"one of the seven fruits of the Bible"—and then that he's Jewish, which is what they're really asking. The word for pomegranate in Hebrew is rimon (רימון). I went looking after the film to see if that was an error on the screenwriter's part or Milgram's and found an interview with Almereyda which confirmed that Milgram always said Hebrew and no one knows why, because Hebrew-speakers, Yiddish-speakers would tell him he had it wrong. Maybe he was just seeing if people noticed.

Thank you.

[heliopausa.livejournal.com]

Congratulations on the poem.

Re: the (horrifying and desolating) Milgram experiment this article (https://theconversation.com/revisiting-milgrams-shocking-obedience-experiments-24787)offers some light:
"According to our analysis, the most powerful factor was whether or not the experimenter directed the teacher to administer the constantly rising shock levels. In conditions where the teacher was free to choose the shock levels, very few proceeded to the maximum voltage."

[sovay]

Congratulations on the poem.

Thank you.

"According to our analysis, the most powerful factor was whether or not the experimenter directed the teacher to administer the constantly rising shock levels. In conditions where the teacher was free to choose the shock levels, very few proceeded to the maximum voltage."

It is good to know what makes the differences. Now we just have to deal with the fact that the people at the top of our government are all in favor of 450 volts.