![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
You'll never give up, never give up, never give up that ship
Last night I dreamed I discovered a previously unknown and probably nonexistent biography of Ralph Richardson. I also dreamed my front teeth fell out like popsicle sticks. One of these dreams was better than the other.
This afternoon![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
derspatchel and I met sairaali and M. at the A.R.T. for The Last Two People on Earth: An Apocalyptic Vaudeville, starring Mandy Patinkin and Taylor Mac. It was lovely. It's more or less what it sounds like: a relationship after the end of the world, described and explored strictly through gesture, mime, and music. Songs utilized include a post-apocalyptic update of Eddie Lawrence's "Old Philosopher," the best cover I have ever heard of the Pogues' "Fairytale of New York," and a subversively straight reading of "Another National Anthem" from Assassins. I grew up on Patinkin's singing (and Spanish accent), but I had never seen him in person before; he plays the older, dourer, more damaged of the pair, a tattered hermit who may or may not have been born in a trunk, but is living ferally in one when Mac's impish baggy-pantser rows a junk-cluttered lifeboat up to his shore. Mac turns out to remind me sharply of Donald O'Connor circa Singin' in the Rain, at least with a bowler hat on, a sprightly knack for physical comedy, and a mercurial talent for extracting everything from a picnic supper to a fifth of gin from the remote regions of judy's trousers. I have discovered that I am no longer the target audience for strobe lights—I didn't get a migraine, but I watched the storm sequences with one hand over my eyes. Eighty minutes with no intermission. If you can snag the tickets, it's worth your time.
So I have this relationship with the film of Stargate (1994), where I know it's a total brain-optional chariots-of-the-gods B-picture with almost certainly a white savior problem and in the days when I lived in a house with a television, I watched it every time it came around, because there are very few movies where a dork with a knowledge of dead languages saves the day. (To this day, even after Crash (1996), Secretary (2002), and Age of Ultron (2015), I am always faintly surprised when James Spader is not playing a sweet-natured nerd. Also, Jaye Davidson as Ra is ridiculously beautiful, even if the bass reverb voice processing is kind of unnecessary.) I knew about the television sequel and its multiple spinoffs; I never paid any attention to them because I couldn't see the point. People who watch more genre television than I do: are any of them any good? This question brought to you by vague curiosity upon realizing I lived through an entire sci-fi franchise without interacting with it almost at all. I mean, I've only seen the pilot of Farscape, but I've seen it.
This afternoon
derspatchel and I met sairaali and M. at the A.R.T. for The Last Two People on Earth: An Apocalyptic Vaudeville, starring Mandy Patinkin and Taylor Mac. It was lovely. It's more or less what it sounds like: a relationship after the end of the world, described and explored strictly through gesture, mime, and music. Songs utilized include a post-apocalyptic update of Eddie Lawrence's "Old Philosopher," the best cover I have ever heard of the Pogues' "Fairytale of New York," and a subversively straight reading of "Another National Anthem" from Assassins. I grew up on Patinkin's singing (and Spanish accent), but I had never seen him in person before; he plays the older, dourer, more damaged of the pair, a tattered hermit who may or may not have been born in a trunk, but is living ferally in one when Mac's impish baggy-pantser rows a junk-cluttered lifeboat up to his shore. Mac turns out to remind me sharply of Donald O'Connor circa Singin' in the Rain, at least with a bowler hat on, a sprightly knack for physical comedy, and a mercurial talent for extracting everything from a picnic supper to a fifth of gin from the remote regions of judy's trousers. I have discovered that I am no longer the target audience for strobe lights—I didn't get a migraine, but I watched the storm sequences with one hand over my eyes. Eighty minutes with no intermission. If you can snag the tickets, it's worth your time. So I have this relationship with the film of Stargate (1994), where I know it's a total brain-optional chariots-of-the-gods B-picture with almost certainly a white savior problem and in the days when I lived in a house with a television, I watched it every time it came around, because there are very few movies where a dork with a knowledge of dead languages saves the day. (To this day, even after Crash (1996), Secretary (2002), and Age of Ultron (2015), I am always faintly surprised when James Spader is not playing a sweet-natured nerd. Also, Jaye Davidson as Ra is ridiculously beautiful, even if the bass reverb voice processing is kind of unnecessary.) I knew about the television sequel and its multiple spinoffs; I never paid any attention to them because I couldn't see the point. People who watch more genre television than I do: are any of them any good? This question brought to you by vague curiosity upon realizing I lived through an entire sci-fi franchise without interacting with it almost at all. I mean, I've only seen the pilot of Farscape, but I've seen it.
no subject
I couldn't stand the Stargate series but I was a Farscape fangirl and those shows were actively pitted against each other, to the point of SGA poaching John and Aeryn, so.
no subject
I think I saw it at the right age to imprint whether I liked it or not. It's in permanent storage now. I regret nothing.
I couldn't stand the Stargate series but I was a Farscape fangirl and those shows were actively pitted against each other, to the point of SGA poaching John and Aeryn, so.
Someone over on LJ mentioned that! I was not a Farscape fan, so it may not give me a problem. What a weird development, either way. Weren't both shows on Sci-Fi?
no subject
no subject
Understood. I watched friends go through the same.
It was similar to the Babylon 5/Star Trek slapfights.
I don't think I spent time on slapfights: I just loved Babylon 5. Discounting childhood shows like The Muppet Show or Fraggle Rock, it was the first television series I actively followed; I came in at the end of the first season and fell in love. In hindsight I can diagnose all kinds of problems, from JMS' variable success with different registers of dialogue to the intermittent development of even the main cast to the fact that, look, even the future of the mid-'90's should not have been as white or as straight as all that, but you will never talk me out of a deep and abiding affection for all things Centauri and the bisexual Russian Jewish badass that was Susan Ivanova. I stayed with that universe through the aborted spinoff of Crusade and all the TV movies, which was more than most of the TV movies deserved. I wrote fic for Babylon 5.* I didn't even do that for Red Dwarf.
* My only foray into online fandom until 2011, when I wrote some flash for Lackadaisy as a present for
no subject
It goes on for many, many seasons, but I think I gave up somewhere around six or seven, but the early seasons had some great stuff. The spin-off shows were- well, I know people who loved Atlantis, but I hated one of the main characters a lot, so it didn't take for me, and Universe was trying to be Dark and Serious in a franchise that was mostly adventure of the week format. But the original was fun, and there were some good episodes in there. Plus there's always the thrill of the fact that every cheesy SF show from the time seemed to use the same pool of actors, so there's an lot of "Hey, it's that person!" in watching it.
no subject
So none of my usual sources for legitimately streaming television are currently carrying Stargate: SG-1, so it looks as though interlibrary loan is about to be in order, but I found a eclectic assortment of freely available (not terrible quality, not going to explode my computer; it looked like a site which had once hosted the entire series for free viewing before Showtime or Syfy pulled most of them, which is why I got the random distribution I did) episodes last night and watched two or three. The sense of humor stood out for me, most notably in that it's a science fiction show populated by people who read and/or are aware of the conventions of science fiction, so there's a plausible amount of yep, this is my life without it becoming self-reflexively undercutting. I liked also that it looks like military SF where the civilian characters are not automatically deadweight, naive, or wrong. I can probably hum my way through the silly nudity once I know it's not a recurring feature. (I am all for nudity, but not nudity for LOOK BOOBIES sake.)
I know people who loved Atlantis, but I hated one of the main characters a lot, so it didn't take for me
No, that sounds like a good reason not to watch! I will almost certainly give it a try because I have been informed that the SG-1 guest character I imprinted on (Robert Picardo's Richard Woolsey, paper-pusher with a conscience) becomes an Atlantis regular, but I won't feel bad if I bounce. Which one did you hate?
Plus there's always the thrill of the fact that every cheesy SF show from the time seemed to use the same pool of actors, so there's an lot of "Hey, it's that person!" in watching it.
That is always fun. Law & Order was like that for character actors. Hey, it's Brad Dourif! And that guy I saw play Alan Turing at the Central Square Theatre in 2011!
no subject
Amanda Tapping talked about how when she was first cast as Carter, the show runners wanted to dress her up in something sexy. She's said that she knew it might cost her the job, but she refused to wear anything other than the most marginally altered-for-a-female-body version of the male character's costumes. She won the fight, and for the most part the show stuck to that for recurring female characters, which was such a relief. There are still a few groaner episodes here and there, but it's better than the average from the time.
no subject
Hm. The socially misfit scientist is an archetype I can go either way on (see: how I feel about Jonathan Willoway), but entitled characters I tend to bounce off no matter their discipline. Nobody is so smart they don't have to have manners. As a smart person who had to learn most of my social skills consciously from the ground up, I feel very strongly about this, dammit.
She's said that she knew it might cost her the job, but she refused to wear anything other than the most marginally altered-for-a-female-body version of the male character's costumes. She won the fight, and for the most part the show stuck to that for recurring female characters, which was such a relief.
Good for her! That also makes me more inclined to watch the show.
no subject
no subject
Useful to know! (Also, interesting. I have very little idea of LJ fandom, since I'm not sure how much I interacted with it even when LJ was a thing.) I plan to try the source material regardless, but do you have recommendations?
no subject
It's been eons since I've read this stuff, but some of the best known BNFs of the time did some of their best work in it, imo:
no subject
I don't read fic almost at all, and even I recognize some of these titles now that you list them. Thank you!
no subject
no subject
no subject
I suspect a good portion of fic-writing fandom identifies with McKay and that's why they find him endearing?
I'd never heard that story about Amanda Tapping. That's awesome!
no subject
Dammit! Well, I'll always have "Inauguration."
no subject
So, I would say that it's worth watching a few episodes of SG-1 and seeing if it catches your fancy. I would not say that it's a must watch.
no subject
Robert Carlyle is part of the reason this post happened. Robert Picardo is one of the others. I had somehow managed to miss that the combined Stargate universe ran for seventeen years in its various incarnations. On the one hand that doesn't make it much of an outlier, because the TV shows I haven't seen far outnumber the ones I have; on the other, I don't know, it felt like it couldn't hurt to check.
It also happens to have my favorite special effect sequence of all time.
That is the sort of statement calculated to get my attention.
So, I would say that it's worth watching a few episodes of SG-1 and seeing if it catches your fancy. I would not say that it's a must watch.
I'm not sure I have the time right now to catch up on fourteen years of television anyway! But I will see what I can find.
Thank you!
no subject
Oh man. I thought I wanted my superpower--well, my summer superpower, anyway-- to be immunity to poisonous plants and insect bites, but now I know that what I want it to be is bass reverb on my voice when I need it.
no subject
(Some of the best fanfic out there is Stargate fic.)
The SG1 show is notable for taking the Stargate movie and distilling out a show bible which was coherent, logical, rich enough to support several years of television(*), and *almost completely consistent with the movie*. Remember how the movie basically made no sense at all? This was a *major* achievement.
(* Not as many years as they dragged out of it. SGU was a flawed show, but it has the great advantage of having been cancelled its in prime.)
Anyhow. As was common in those days, the first season of SG1 was clunky and sometimes awful. (But we kept watching.) It got better, it got weirder. (Not as weird as Farscape, but hey.) The actors developed some really excellent chemistry. Michael Shanks left, sort of, and then came back. The energy flagged. Ben Browder and Claudia Black showed up. It was a show.
Atlantis tried to do what (Star Trek) Voyager had failed to do. It got it kind of right. The actors developed some really excellent chemistry. The energy flagged. Jewel Staite showed up. It was a show.
SGU, yeah, it tried to do what BSG had succeeded at doing. I think SGU was pretty successful, actually. It got cancelled on a cliffhanger. It was about half of a show.
no subject
Stargate Atlantis was also somewhat churned up by casting issues, at times.
There is absolutely nothing like Jaye Davidson in the shows. Alas. (There is nothing like Jaye Davidson, period.)
However, "...a dork with a knowledge of dead languages saves the day" is in fact a large part of SG-1's particular charm, as Dr. Daniel Jackson, re-cast but still a passionate nerd, is highly relevant to the show.
I like SG:A, too, but it scratches different itches.
no subject
The show isn't perfect - it suffers from power creep as the series grew, and the final season was more than a bit strange (and not in the Fringe sort of way). But there are some fantastic episodes and it does comedy very very well.
Ask yourself this: if you had a wormhole at your command that you could open to any of a million places in the universe . . . wouldn't you want to play golf through it too?
no subject
Ra was one if the things that intrigued me about the movie -- why all the child courtiers? Were they hostages? Spare bodies?
no subject
I watched most seasons of all the TV shows.
I watched parts of Farscape. There must be more actors in Vancouver than one would imagine by noticing the overlap of actors.
no subject
I trust you to use it responsibly. Or at least irresponsibly and awesomely.
no subject
I always thought the answer to both questions was yes. He's kept his current body young for millennia, but presumably at some point he'll need to switch over, so why not have an array of beautiful options on hand who have been groomed for it? There's the scene in the throne room where O'Neill threatens Ra and the children all shield him with their bodies, wordlessly and instantly; they have been raised to give him their lives. Now that I'm thinking about it, I assume that as they age out of being personal attendants and potential new hosts, they take on other roles in the palace complex, guards, servants, soldiers. His personal guard, even as adults, are fine-looking people.
no subject
Alas, we do not have a VCR. We do not even have a television, a DVD player in the formal sense, or a Blu-Ray player. We watch DVDs off my computer and streaming videos off both our computers. Thank you very much for the offer, though!
It led me to do some research about hieroglyphs.
Nice!
I watched parts of Farscape. There must be more actors in Vancouver than one would imagine by noticing the overlap of actors.
This is about Browder and Black? Did Sci-Fi just re-employ them when Farscape was killed?
no subject
I don't know: I'm genuinely curious. It turns out that I'll have to rent the DVDs of SG-1 if I want to see the series in any contiguous order, but I watched a couple of randomly available episodes off the internet last night and I was intrigued. (Military SF is not my usual genre, but even so, I don't see a lot of shows about interstellar research and defense where government oversight and funding is a real issue.) Feel free to talk a lot. Your synopses
belowabove are great.As was common in those days, the first season of SG1 was clunky and sometimes awful. (But we kept watching.)
I got lucky: I discovered Babylon 5 in the last two episodes of the first season. When I went back between the fourth and fifth seasons to fill myself in, oh, man, I did not know the bullets I'd dodged. David McCallum, I'm sorry.
no subject
Check. I scrounged a couple of episodes off the internet last night and I may have seen episodes from both sides of this divide, although it's difficult for me to tell, not knowing any of the cast except the guest character that won my heart. (That would be Robert Picardo's not actually evil auditor. I have to wait seven seasons for him?)
There is absolutely nothing like Jaye Davidson in the shows. Alas. (There is nothing like Jaye Davidson, period.)
Sigh.
However, "...a dork with a knowledge of dead languages saves the day" is in fact a large part of SG-1's particular charm, as Dr. Daniel Jackson, re-cast but still a passionate nerd, is highly relevant to the show.
I noticed the recasting! It was late enough at night that I found the partial likeness to Spader's Daniel both mildly distracting and hilarious.
I like SG:A, too, but it scratches different itches.
What's it good for?
no subject
That sounds promising. She's Carter? I saw a little of her last night; I approve of smart, competent female main characters.
And as a bonus, with Don Davis as General Hammond you could argue it's set in the same world as Twin Peaks (and that's my head cannon for now).
It was impossible for me not to feel that Major Briggs had been kicked upstairs from otherworldly border towns to alien first contact, yes. Kudos to the casting director who thought of it and the actor for taking the role.
The show isn't perfect - it suffers from power creep as the series grew, and the final season was more than a bit strange (and not in the Fringe sort of way)
There appears to be consensus in comments that the show ran longer than it could sustain. To be fair, I like about half of the fifth season of Babylon 5 and the other half just makes me shout at Byron and his Goth telepaths to blow themselves up already.
Ask yourself this: if you had a wormhole at your command that you could open to any of a million places in the universe . . . wouldn't you want to play golf through it too?
No, because I don't play golf. But to the spirit of your question: yeah.
no subject
The dynamic of the team is much different in SG:A and it's less grounded in present-day (well, dated now, but present then) Earth than SG1.
no subject
I shall have to watch it, then.
The dynamic of the team is much different in SG:A and it's less grounded in present-day (well, dated now, but present then) Earth than SG1.
I got that impression, with the whole lost-city-of-the-stars setting. One of the things that interested me about last night's SG-1 episodes was the insistence on retaining strong plot links to Earth and specifically the administration of the U.S. military, as opposed to just spinning off into interstellar adventures. I didn't feel like I'd seen that a lot on TV.
no subject
If you're starting to watch SG:A, I will tell you that I have a fantasy of David Hewlett (who plays Rodney) as Richard III.
no subject
I'm very fond of the first half of the movie, too. Apparently I love set-up, especially with geeks; I'm equally fond of the first half of Contact</>, eg. Once they get down to action/plot or woo-woo/mysticism, I care less.
RDA and CJ meet cute
On MacGyver, years before SG-1.
no subject
1st season especially of SG-1 is very grounded in US Military Mindset, though they keep aspects of it throughout the rest of the show. SG-1 as a whole is all about Going Out And Discovering Things, though it gets intimately wrapped up in its worldbuilding, sometimes in actual interesting ways.
SG:A is, as someone said, like Voyager (but better), in that they're a bunch of folks stuck out in the wider universe and seeking plot coupons in order to get home. The focus is more on the exploration of the societies around them and the Ancient Technology than on the getting home, though. Also, unlike Voyager, they're mostly a bunch of scientists.
no subject
no subject
I appreciate the tele-offer!
(Still haven't seen the last episode of B5; it took me forever to watch the end of Buffy. Etc.)
Is it from loss of interest, or because watching the last episode of something finishes it for real? (If the latter, I may be able to sympathize; I have read the last books of neither Lloyd Alexander nor Diana Wynne Jones.)
Once they get down to action/plot or woo-woo/mysticism, I care less.
It's not my reaction to most movies, but that exactly describes my feelings about The Incredible Hulk (2008)—and to some degree Thor (2011), actually. The movie is so good when it's just hanging out observing its characters, why does it have to try to distract its audience with plot?
no subject
That's really neat.
If you're starting to watch SG:A, I will tell you that I have a fantasy of David Hewlett (who plays Rodney) as Richard III.
I am planning to give SG-1 a try first, but I will certainly keep this casting in mind when I get to Atlantis.
no subject
Example?
The focus is more on the exploration of the societies around them and the Ancient Technology than on the getting home, though. Also, unlike Voyager, they're mostly a bunch of scientists.
That does sound appealing to me, even without the lure of Richard Woolsey. So long as they are not stupidly drawn scientists, I'm all for watching people study stuff.
no subject
But that's not true of Buffy, or Angel, or any of my other uncompleted fandoms. I dunno: maybe I do like to keep them alive, still plunging off that cliff, not landed yet.
no subject
That sounds terrific. I wonder if I can make it to Boston before it goes away? Perhaps I can lure it down to New York.
Also, mmm, Donald O'Conor in Singing in the Rain. I still maintain that it's a crime that he and Danny Kaye never made a film together. For preference, a buddy film with a one upmanship vibe. Alas for the studio system.
no subject
Oh, the last season of Babylon 5 is incredibly uneven. I like about a third of it. Mostly the tragic arc of Centauri Prime. The rest I haven't rewatched in seventeen years. But the series finale, as you have almost certainly already been told, was filmed as part of the fourth season when there was no expectation of a fifth-season renewal, so it is actually extremely good (if not quite congruent with the cast of the fifth season. I have never minded, because I care a lot more about Ivanova than about Lochley. I care a lot more about Ivanova than about anyone who wasn't Londo, G'Kar, or Vir). I recommend it, even if it will leave you with a resolution instead of a potential state.
no subject
Chances are good. The last several high-profile A.R.T. productions went either to Broadway or very close by.
Donald O'Conor in Singing in the Rain. I still maintain that it's a crime that he and Danny Kaye never made a film together.
I THINK ABOUT THIS SOMETIMES.
Re: RDA and CJ meet cute
MacGyver is another of the cultural touchstones I have never actually seen. My television consumption during the '90's really was pretty much limited to Babylon 5 and a small quantity of Star Trek.
no subject
Having watched B5 when I could binge on the show, Byron actually wasn't that bad when done in that way, and was definitely worth having the fifth season (and Byron was only in the first third of the S5 episodes, and even then he was only the focus every other, IIRC).
no subject
no subject
Hee. Millennium's second-season finale killed off the world and most of the characters with an apocalyptic plague. I have never watched the third season, because it is obviously either an alternate timeline or wishful thinking.