Strike a gong for Arthur Rank
The construction has left our street so broken up that a film of dust settles behind every passing car like the streets of Laredo. We must have the central artery of gas mains not to be finished yet. I may not be entirely joking about developing a trauma reaction to the sound of trucks backing up. Every month of this summer has been eaten alive.
Just a little past the thirteen-minute mark of The Cruel Sea (1953),![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
spatch recognized Denholm Elliott as Sub-Lieutenant John Morell from this icon I have had for sixteen years; it was the first I made myself as opposed to was graciously gifted by LJ-friends. For a long time it was the youngest I had seen him, that slight, sardonic erstwhile barrister with the demure dry voice and that flinch on the raw every time someone asks about his wife. ("Haven't you got rid of that clot of a husband yet?") I recognized him at once across thirty years of character acting, the crease of a skeptical eyebrow, his coat slung over his arm. Alec McCowen is similarly unmistakable in his feature debut of a leading seaman, no more guaranteed of making it to the credits than anybody else aboard HMS Compass Rose. For a Nicholas Monsarrat double feature, rain-checked for some night without two medical appointments in the morning, we could watch The Ship That Died of Shame (1955).
I admire this pansy ring from the 1930's and cannot imagine a heterosexual explanation.
Just a little past the thirteen-minute mark of The Cruel Sea (1953),
spatch recognized Denholm Elliott as Sub-Lieutenant John Morell from this icon I have had for sixteen years; it was the first I made myself as opposed to was graciously gifted by LJ-friends. For a long time it was the youngest I had seen him, that slight, sardonic erstwhile barrister with the demure dry voice and that flinch on the raw every time someone asks about his wife. ("Haven't you got rid of that clot of a husband yet?") I recognized him at once across thirty years of character acting, the crease of a skeptical eyebrow, his coat slung over his arm. Alec McCowen is similarly unmistakable in his feature debut of a leading seaman, no more guaranteed of making it to the credits than anybody else aboard HMS Compass Rose. For a Nicholas Monsarrat double feature, rain-checked for some night without two medical appointments in the morning, we could watch The Ship That Died of Shame (1955).I admire this pansy ring from the 1930's and cannot imagine a heterosexual explanation.
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Compass Rose is a great name for a ship, and The Ship That Died of Shame is a great name for a film. Here's to your being able to redeem that raincheck sometime in this lifetime, or better yet, sometime in the next few weeks.
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It's a lovely object. Anyone who made a museum-quality replica could sell it like hotcakes. Specifically to me.
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It's sort of Promethean: they break up the street and then patch it up and then break it up again. The traffic cones have become permanent residents along with the engineering vehicles and the patina of petrochemical dust. No wonder our next-door neighbors moved out on Sunday.
Compass Rose is a great name for a ship, and The Ship That Died of Shame is a great name for a film.
We've wanted to see it ever since I bought
Here's to your being able to redeem that raincheck sometime in this lifetime, or better yet, sometime in the next few weeks.
Thank you. I want a do-over on nearly all of this summer.
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Aww.
I'm amused that
I can see your next post and honestly, WHERE IS YOUR MOAT? Is that what they are doing? *shakes fist at sky* *sends you a hundred more hugs*
I very, very much hope they all finish their work and bugger off asap though. What a way to kill a summer, and have a go at you, too. .:-(
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Leading Seaman Tonbridge, sighting his first loss of the convoy.
I'm amused that spatch recognised your icon! Heh, I think we've all had moments like that where suddenly that wee square we associated with being an online face of a friend suddenly falls into place: Oh, so THAT'S...
I permanently associate
I very, very much hope they all finish their work and bugger off asap though. What a way to kill a summer, and have a go at you, too.
*hugs*
Thank you. It's debilitating. I get a kind of fingernail grasp on sleep and then the world's largest air horn blasts through our bedroom at an abnormal hour of the morning. And my ears hurt.
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!!! That's not recognisably Alec McCowen! Who is that young stranger? XD Thank you! <3
I get a kind of fingernail grasp on sleep and then the world's largest air horn blasts through our bedroom at an abnormal hour of the morning. And my ears hurt.
I can only repeat the seven megalomaniac wizard theory, and that the worst one is clearly winning, because it's gone so far beyond reasonable, reasonable comments are therefore no use. *hugs* They better cease and desist and stand down soon!
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He's got all the right bones in the right places! You're welcome!
I can only repeat the seven megalomaniac wizard theory, and that the worst one is clearly winning, because it's gone so far beyond reasonable, reasonable comments are therefore no use.
This morning
*hugs*
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I mean, he has and all, but... XD I think the earliest I've seen him before is 1978 in the BBC Henry V as Chorus, and this is a way before that. I have too few dots to join up!!
This morning [personal profile] spatch tells me there was a dump truck, which felt unnecessarily literal.
Maybe Awful went evil and is now farming the world? Something's not working out, anyway. *hugs*
ETA: Half an hour into this film, and I still don't recognise him, or I wouldn't were it not for you giving me a name and a screencap, saving one certain movement of the head. (tbf to me he is 20 years younger than I've ever seen him, is wearing a hat and talking in a cockney accent.)
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That's fair! As far as I can tell, I discovered him with Personal Services (1987) and then accidentally over the years backfilled a bunch of his earlier roles including The Cruel Sea so that by the time you recommended me Mr Palfrey he was an active draw. Technically I would have seen him first in Branagh's Henry V (1989), but I have absolutely no memory of him in the part.
ETA: Half an hour into this film, and I still don't recognise him, or I wouldn't were it not for you giving me a name and a screencap, saving one certain movement of the head. (tbf to me he is 20 years younger than I've ever seen him, is wearing a hat and talking in a cockney accent.)
The hat and the accent are definitely stacking the deck. I hope the rest of the film has treated you well.
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Me neither, and when I saw that I'd only just watched him in the BBC one as Chorus, and before that, as Malvolio in the BBC Shakespeare Twelfth Night (we did them both for A-Level), but I see he's the Bishop of Ely, so we're both excused! XD
The hat and the accent are definitely stacking the deck. I hope the rest of the film has treated you well.
They are! And I'm enjoying it so far, but I tend to cycle round different methods of watching things, especially in summer and I can only watch in 20-40 min segments, so I am yet to watch any more. (THe speed at which I watch films can be summed up by the fact that I'm a bit worried that I have only 12 days left to finish it via the iPlayer. I think I can manage it, but... lol.) I couldn't focus on anything I was supposed to be watching yesterday morning, so scrolled through the films on iPlayer, and it was right there, so I thought why not?
I knew vaguely, and more specifically, from what you've said that it was a WWII film, but I hadn't quite realised how it was done, and I have another interest in it from that angle. I shall come back shortly and show you!
ETA: My (maternal) granddad, Griffith Islwyn Evans, Petty Officer:
(He's crouching at the front at the right there.)
Unfortunately, I don't know where he was/what he did, other than that he was at one point stationed at Gibraltar, because he told my Mum he got "Gibguts" there. (We have a few photos of him in uniform, but none of them show the hat in the right detail to even see a ship name or anything like that. One of them you can make out the "HMS". He will have a service record, but those have to be ordered specially & cost money, so it's something to do someday. Mum wants to do it, and I think my uncle does, so hopefully!)
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Pleased to meet him! (He's very distinctive between the two photos.) I'm sorry so few stories were handed down, but glad it sounds like a minimal hassle to get hold of some of the information. Please let me know also if you find out anything about the ship's cat.
What did he do outside of the war?
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Also, you should call 311 and complain. Or I can impersonate you and call 311 on your behalf, if desired...
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He was an industrial chemist at British Cellophane - it was how he came to Bridgwater, where I grew up, and met my Granny. There was massive unemployment in S. Wales in the 30s, and he and two friends came to work at the Cellophane when it opened in 1938 (he was only 19, nearly 20) & they didn't have anywhere to stay, so they asked in a shop, and they were told to go and ask at the Youngs's market garden, where my great-grandmother immediately took them in until they could find somewhere else to stay. My Granny was the one who kept the house at that time and she was not best pleased to suddenly have three lodgers to look after, but it turned out all right! (One of the three did find somewhere else to stay, but Granddad and his other friend just sat tight - "She hasn't asked us to leave!" My Granny and Granddad had to wait until 1944 to marry, though; Granddad didn't want to risk leaving her as a widow with children, and then they had to wait for leave to get engaged, and to be married.)
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That matches the one hit for a person of his distinctive middle name which I saw, but I didn't want to presume.
There was massive unemployment in S. Wales in the 30s, and he and two friends came to work at the Cellophane when it opened in 1938 (he was only 19, nearly 20) & they didn't have anywhere to stay, so they asked in a shop, and they were told to go and ask at the Youngs's market garden, where my great-grandmother immediately took them in until they could find somewhere else to stay. My Granny was the one who kept the house at that time and she was not best pleased to suddenly have three lodgers to look after, but it turned out all right!
That's delightful. Thank you for sharing with me.
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I'm lucky, re. family history, that way! Searching for Evanses in Wales is otherwise like needles in haystacks. Islwyn is a place name used as a bardic name by William Thomas, but I don't know why specifically.
(I didn't know what he was actually called until long after he'd died - Granny always called him Smiler, his sister-in-law called him Griff, he had a mug from his workmates with Izzy on it, his sister (& the rest of his family) called him Islwyn & of course we all called him Dad or Grandad).
Anyway, what I'm really meaning to say is that I'm now less than 20 minutes from the end of The Cruel Sea and I have enjoyed it a lot! (I assume it's not likely at this rate to change in the next 20 mins, heh.) I lost track of Alec entirely after that one bit you screencapped there.
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That's actually the plan for tonight or even the next couple of nights, since I finally slept well thanks to there being no possibility whatsoever of construction on Sunday.
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They've been working Saturdays all summer. I'm not willing to risk it!
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Do you know if he was named after someone, the name being so uncommon?
(I didn't know what he was actually called until long after he'd died - Granny always called him Smiler, his sister-in-law called him Griff, he had a mug from his workmates with Izzy on it, his sister (& the rest of his family) called him Islwyn & of course we all called him Dad or Grandad).
That seems to me a very reasonable complement of names for a grandparent to have.
(It's unclear if my grandmother actually changed her name in English or if census records from her childhood were misled by her name in Yiddish. We would have to bug the New York City Health Department for her birth certificate and no one in my family has felt strongly enough about it yet.)
Anyway, what I'm really meaning to say is that I'm now less than 20 minutes from the end of The Cruel Sea and I have enjoyed it a lot!
I'm so glad to hear it! (You would have lost track of Alec McCowen no matter what after the sinking of Compass Rose.)
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I mean, one way or another, he was named for the bard, but I don't know how directly or why. It must have been part of the rising Welsh nationalism and Eisteddfodau and Disestablishment movements, but again, no idea how actively so, or more because those were therefore popular names at the time. The friend he came to Bridgwater with had an older brother who was also given a bardic name (Cynlais), but in that case, the bard was a great-uncle. However, despite the fact that I have at least two or three direct Thomas lines, I don't see any likely family connection to the poet. Grandad's brothers and sisters have a similar mix of family and more poetically Welsh names - Griffith is for both his great-grandfathers & an uncle & great-uncle. My Aunty Rowena's name was Linis Rowena, which seems to be completely unique, as far as I can tell, so Linis must actually be a variant of another name.
(Because of the limited pool of surnames in Wales, it's theoretically the same as English family history because you use the same records, but in actuality much harder. The matronymic/patronymic naming system didn't change until much later there & the surnames were all personal name-related, and a very limited collection of personal names at that - it didn't shift until the 16th/17th C for upper classes; my Evanses were clearly still using something close to the patronymic system in the late 19th C, and the actual thing in at the turn of the 18th & 19th Cs - Griffith Evan was the son of Evan Griffith.)
I'm so glad to hear it! (You would have lost track of Alec McCowen no matter what after the sinking of Compass Rose.)
I did, yes. And, heh, yeah, no more Tonbridge after that, right along with Denholm, but idk where he was before that. It did have some of that women-are-bad thing that plagues so many war films, but fairly muted mostly (and, I gather, slightly softened from the book, because I saw some quotes on tumblr when I poked it to see if there were gifs, because old classic films are often better served than many other things, but not in this case, barring one of some machinery, which wasn't what I was after), and was balanced out by more than enough to make it a very good film indeed. Not that I'm surprised - I didn't imagine it would be such a favourite of yours if it wasn't. <3
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Right: I should have been clearer that I was asking if your grandfather's Islwyn was specifically familial, which it sounds like not. The naming conventions in your grandfather's generation remind me of a friend of mine from grad school, who along with his two brothers was issued a standard Norwegian first name and then a more poetically Nordic middle name, which in his case was so obviously his actual name that he never wanted to be called anything else, while his brothers were fine with their standard-issue first names. I liked the choice that afforded the children. I hope you find out where Linis came from; it's neat that it's not otherwise attested.
(As you may already know, Ashkenazi Jewish surnames were also a late development and a bureaucratically imposed one.)
because I saw some quotes on tumblr when I poked it to see if there were gifs, because old classic films are often better served than many other things, but not in this case, barring one of some machinery, which wasn't what I was after
I mean, I like machinery, but I would actually have expected people! I don't suppose I could ask you to make a gifset of Denholm Elliot in The Cruel Sea (1953) in your overflowing free time?
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That does sound very similar! And, yes, it's more that I don't believe it to be familial, but because of the Welsh research (surname) difficulty, it's very hard to say that it isn't for sure, either.
As you may already know, Ashkenazi Jewish surnames were also a late development and a bureaucratically imposed one.
No, I didn't really; I have the more specific knowledge for English and Welsh for fairly obvious reasons (my roots are not terribly diverse, 3/4s of them come from one side or the other of the Bristol Channel, with only my London Grandad providing me with a leavening of more assorted English counties at least.) What was used before - locative, or patronymic, or something else/nothing?
I mean, I like machinery, but I would actually have expected people!
Me, too! It made a perfect gif, though (in the literal sense), so I think that was why. It takes all sorts to make a tumblr, I suppose.
I don't suppose I could ask you to make a gifset of Denholm Elliot in The Cruel Sea (1953) in your overflowing free time?
I wish I could, but I only know how to do it from DVD sources, and I watched it on the BBC iPlayer. I liked it enough that I would certainly pick up a DVD if I saw one, though, and wee!Denholm would certainly warrant giffing. ♥
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Check.
No, I didn't really; I have the more specific knowledge for English and Welsh for fairly obvious reasons (my roots are not terribly diverse, 3/4s of them come from one side or the other of the Bristol Channel, with only my London Grandad providing me with a leavening of more assorted English counties at least.)
I didn't want to assume! I knew about the thing with Welsh surnames because my own last name was by all accounts Welsh before it was Irish, but if so it's weird that it's attested as far back as the thirteenth century (in Ireland, not Wales). The going theory, supported by a Welsh-Canadian writer friend whom I bounced the problem off years ago, is that it's an Anglicized locative adopted when the family branched into Ireland (according to tradition in the twelfth century). There's at least one eighteenth-century engraving which uses the Taaffe spelling for the River Taff. From that thirteenth-century attestation, the family becomes almost stupidly easy to trace in various branches into the twentieth century, which is nuts since the other side of my family is a lot of fragile documentation, family stories, and emoji shrugs, which is admittedly under the circumstances a lot more normal.
What was used before - locative, or patronymic, or something else/nothing?
Patronymics. The usage persists in ritual contexts: naming, marriage, burial, being called to the bimah for an aliyah, documents like a ketubah or a get; in more egalitarian branches of Judaism, the names of both parents are used. Sephardi surnames started to pick up as far back as the tenth century and became obligatory in the late fifteenth. I know much less about the history of Mizrahi surnames except that I am aware of a couple of prominent families that switched over as far back the late eighteenth century and some communities that stuck with patronymics into the early twentieth. Ashkenazi surnames became mandatory in the late eighteenth century and the process continued into the nineteenth, although even after that point they could be treated as legal obligations rather than everyday forms of address. You get a lot of surnames derived from occupations or localities or traits or the natural world but also from patronymics/matronymics themselves, like Mendelssohn or Rivkin. Also some stuff that people just started using and good luck tracing it at this point. We have absolutely no idea where one of the surnames on my mother's side of the family came from and may well never find out.
Me, too! It made a perfect gif, though (in the literal sense), so I think that was why. It takes all sorts to make a tumblr, I suppose.
All right, link?
I wish I could, but I only know how to do it from DVD sources, and I watched it on the BBC iPlayer. I liked it enough that I would certainly pick up a DVD if I saw one, though, and wee!Denholm would certainly warrant giffing.
Should the DVD ever cross your path, I will do my best to look unpushily supportive of this plan. And I am glad you liked it that much!
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Sounds likely enough & the Welsh surname thing was only retained like that in Wales, not if Welsh people moved outside of Wales, particularly to England.
Patronymics.
Oh, thank you. That is very interesting! (And good luck with the impossible surname, too.)
All right, link?
I present to you, the sole gif I could find of The Cruel Sea on tumblr, which is of course, not to say it is the only gif on tumblr.
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That's some machinery all right. (I appreciate the sharing of it.)